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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

captainkirk said:
You're looking at it from the point of view of someone who's had many years of experience consuming superhero stories. When I saw the movie I was probably 11 and my main experience of Superman were the Max Fleischer cartoons and Lois & Clark. And so my reaction wasn't "Eh, they'll be fine." It was "Superman just crushed a man's hand and threw him to his death." It was so jarring compared to the Superman I knew at that point.
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It never even crossed my mind, from my original viewing of the film in 1981 through numerous rewatches since, that anybody died there, and I still maintain no one did. Fannish literal-mindedness and/or efforts to excuse Snyderman aside, it’s completely at odds with the clear tone and intent of the scene. Christopher is dead right on that point.
 
captainkirk said:
You're looking at it from the point of view of someone who's had many years of experience consuming superhero stories. When I saw the movie I was probably 11 and my main experience of Superman were the Max Fleischer cartoons and Lois & Clark. And so my reaction wasn't "Eh, they'll be fine." It was "Superman just crushed a man's hand and threw him to his death." It was so jarring compared to the Superman I knew at that point.
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Keep in mind that if you apply real life physics to Superman in those movies, Lois should have died in the first one too.
 
captainkirk said:
You're looking at it from the point of view of someone who's had many years of experience consuming superhero stories. When I saw the movie I was probably 11 and my main experience of Superman were the Max Fleischer cartoons and Lois & Clark. And so my reaction wasn't "Eh, they'll be fine." It was "Superman just crushed a man's hand and threw him to his death." It was so jarring compared to the Superman I knew at that point.
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I was 12 when I first saw Superman II, and I don't remember thinking at the time that Superman killed the Phantom Zone villains. I don't know for sure how I perceived it at the time, since my memory that far back isn't great, but I recall feeling surprised in more recent years when I learned that a lot of people do interpret it that way, which suggests that I never did. The fact that that interpretation clashes with what I knew of Superman may be why I didn't believe that was what had happened. Or at least why I found it ambiguous enough that I chose to assume otherwise.

I suppose it's possible that I saw it with my father or big sister and they assured me that the villains were probably okay. I suddenly have the impression that might have happened, but it's probably just something my imagination concocted on the spot rather than an actual memory. But it's a possibility for why I interpreted it that way.
 
I guess different people just interpret it differently. But if it wasn't their intention to leave it unclear, then they should have put in a line or something to confirm it one way or the other.
 
dupersuper said:
That was never the intent. There's a deleted scene sometimes included in TV airings showing the phantom zone criminals being taken off to jail afterwards. People who think Superman smirked then murdered a powerless opponent baffle me beyond words.
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Incorrect. The movie--as intended had Superman and Lois kill two of the Kryptonian villains. I saw Superman II in theaters when it was released, and the scene was not ambiguous of left up to interpretation at all. They (the villains) were not spared, or taken to jail. They were killed. That was the final cut audiences were meant to see.
 
captainkirk said:
I guess different people just interpret it differently. But if it wasn't their intention to leave it unclear, then they should have put in a line or something to confirm it one way or the other.
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They were going to put in a whole scene, as we've discussed, but it was sacrificed in editing.

After all, this is a Hollywood movie. Film executives expect the heroes to kill the villains. The idea of heroes that refuse to kill is alien to them, which is why so many movie superheroes are more lethal than their comics counterparts. So a scene confirming that the villains were alive was probably deemed narratively unnecessary.

But for me, the fact that it's unclear is a feature rather than a bug. Since it's ambiguous, you're free to believe whatever you want -- if you don't want him to be a killer, you can just believe he wasn't. There are a lot of superhero movies where the villain's death at the end is far more overt.
 
Anwar said:
The REAL problems with Superman 2 were how he gave up his powers to be with someone as nutty as the Donner Lois and how he decided he couldn't trust her with his secret after and violated her mind to make her forget.
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^^^
I disagree with your interpretation as to why Superman did what he did to Lois at the end of Superman 2. Lois was absolutely depressed because she realized she and Superman (who she deeply loved) could never be "together" again because he could not give up his powers to become normal. He wasn't worried about her revealing his secret, he did it because he felt It would allow her to go back to being happier and how she was before she found out who Clark actually was.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
Incorrect. The movie--as intended had Superman and Lois kill two of the Kryptonian villains. I saw Superman II in theaters when it was released, and the scene was not ambiguous of left up to interpretation at all. They (the villains) were not spared, or taken to jail. They were killed. That was the final cut audiences were meant to see.
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Meant to by producers cutting the runtime down for theatrical release, not by any of the storytellers. If that kind of murderer is your Superman, I don't get you at all.
 
captainkirk said:
I had no idea there was a deleted scene where we see the villains alive until this thread. I haven't seen the movie in many years, and my immediate takeaway was always that Superman crushed Zod's hand, flung him against the wall, and down the pit to his death, all with no remorse or attempt to bring him in alive.
You can go "Well, actually" all you like, but the fact remains that in the scene Superman is facing someone who is now not a threat to anyone and at the very least breaks many of his bones all without any need. I have many issues with MoS, but I find the neck snap to be more justifiable than how Superman II handled it.
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Gotta love the Arctic Police:

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Noname Given said:
^^^
I disagree with your interpretation as to why Superman did what he did to Lois at the end of Superman 2. Lois was absolutely depressed because she realized she and Superman (who she deeply loved) could never be "together" again because he could not give up his powers to become normal. He wasn't worried about her revealing his secret, he did it because he felt It would allow her to go back to being happier and how she was before she found out who Clark actually was.
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And any such benevolent intentions are totally invalidated by the fact that he takes her memories without her consent. But that was the '70s for you.


theenglish said:
Gotta love the Arctic Police:
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Another thing I hate about Superman II: The whole point of the Fortress of Solitude is that it's supposed to be so remote and in such hostile conditions that it's inaccessible to everyone but Superman. That's literally why it's called that. Yet the movie shows that it's close enough to civilization that Clark can walk to and from it without superpowers or even any substantial Arctic gear, and the deleted scene even puts it in the jurisdiction of law enforcement. It's so dumb.
 
UFslnf6.jpg

THR| DC's 'Justice Society: World War II' Sets Voice Cast

The cast is led by Stana Katic as Wonder Woman and Matt Bomer as The Flash. Though, another voice actor, Armen Taylor, is listed as Jay Garrick, so maybe Bomer's Flash is Barry Allen in some kind of narrative framework?! Iris West is also one of the characters listed, so it might be Wonder Woman telling Barry Allen of the days of the JSA. That, or time-travel *ironic-yay*.
 
Here's hoping Stana Katic doesn't phone it in as much as she did as Lois Lane in "Superman Unbound".
 
Omid Abtahi as Hawkman, that's interesting. Not someone I would imagine as Hawkman (if just using his regular voice) but a good actor and as I said, could be interesting.
 
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