how exactly would anyone have had the chance to stop her from stepping through the guardian? it's like saying murder laws aren't enforced cause people still get killed XD
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x11 - "Su'Kal"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Have I only imagined the Guardian of Forever flat-out saying he had gone into hiding at the far edge of the Gamma Quadrant so that he cannot be used to alter the past anymore and Discovery was stated to be literally the only ship able to find him specifically because it had not only 32nd century data on its hard drives but also 23rd century information and the 100-thousand-year-long logs of the Sphere Data that allowed its computer to extrapolate his location?
The mere existence of the GoF in hiding does not mean that every single person in the entire galaxy who contemplates traveling to the past is free to do so and has every means of achieving it at their disposal.
I disagree with your assertion that forward time travel should count. Forward time travel is just suspended animation with extra steps. Everyone is always going forward in time, it's just that Burnham and Discovery managed to skip ahead. There's nothing wrong with it, and there's no harm in it.
It's backwards time travel that destroys timelines and civilizations and was the issue with the Wars. We've only seen one instance of backwards time travel on the show, and that was via the Guardian of Forever. A being certainly above the Federation as we our to amoeba, so enforcement of laws on him are about as meaningful as enforcing laws on Kevin Uxbridge.
Now, I will agree that the Federation doesn't appear to be in any position to be enforcing time travel, even though they make mention of it. With the addition of an "ironclad" interdimensional ban, I am fairly convinced that enforcement is accomplished through some external force. A higher being, probably not on the Guardian's level, that can limit temporal mischief.
Officially, Georgiou "died". That's Discovery's story they told Starfleet.
There's a difference between "enforcement" and "zero tolerance". One requires you to think and actually use your judgment. The other doesn't.
There's a difference between "enforcement" and "zero tolerance". One requires you to think and actually use your judgment. The other doesn't.
I would think "We had to travel to the future or if Control re-emerged it could've wiped out life everywhere!" is a good enough of a reason to make an exception. Survival versus following the letter of the law. I'll take survival.
I'm guessing Fateor must hate Star Trek III: The Search for Spock with Kirk breaking rules and violating the chain of command. How dare Kirk. Or Picard violating orders in Star Trek: First Contact to save Earth from Borg Assimilation. How dare Picard. Sometimes, you just have to say, "To Hell with our orders."
Hold on. Wait for it, wait for it... "But that's different!"
I'm guessing Fateor must hate Star Trek III: The Search for Spock with Kirk breaking rules and violating the chain of command. How dare Kirk. Or Picard violating orders in Star Trek: First Contact to save Earth from Borg Assimilation. How dare Picard. Sometimes, you just have to say, "To Hell with our orders."
Hold on. Wait for it, wait for it... "But that's different!"
If I remember correctly in "Time Patrol" by Poul Anderson they had observers who were sort of out of the normal flow of time that could tell when events were different from what they "used" to be. It's a very good series about time travel, something to inspire the ST writers whose inspiration sometimes runs a little short.
It's funny when later on Admiral Janway talks about Picard's assignments with the Borg and the Ba'ku when in both cases Picard not only did go there without being assigned but also he outright disobeyed orders... Way to rewrite history Admiral Big Brother Janeway!!!
The same way they would enforce a ban on time travel going into the past from the present.
Which is A) Some sort of field that prevents any time travel into or out of the banned area, or B) a temporal reaction force made up of people who appear the moment someone tries to time travel and stops them.
However since neither of those things are shown to exist, we can surmise that there is no real enforcement of the ban on time travel. Because those are in fact the ONLY ways to actually enforce a ban on time travel.
I don't think those are the only ways. It's very black and white thinking to assume that because a ban exists that therefor it must be enforced every single time to some how be effective. Except, that's not the way bans work. As noted it only has to be effective against larger actors to keep them from negatively impacting time as apparently happened with the Temporal Wars. The use of the Guardian was not impacted by the ban largely because the ban couldn't really impact such a being. It clearly had capabilities beyond the other powers and chose to help Georgiou at that point.
Beyond that what other time travel are seeing people do?
Beyond that what other time travel are seeing people do?
You would have a point if this were anything other then Time Travel, but it is Time Travel, and with Time Travel even a single small alteration can change the entire course of galactic history writing uncountable trillions of sentient beings out of existence.
Well, anyway, even if "forwards time travel" was actually a thing that exists (as opposed to just going forward in time, which everyone does, just some do it quicker than others), Discovery and Burnham aren't at fault, because they come from a time before the Temporal Accords of the 28th century or the Time Travel Ban of the 31st century.
Now that they are in the 32nd century, and especially that they have reenlisted with Starfleet and all its present rules, they are bound by the ban and whatever extradimensional entity enforces it.
Except, it doesn't appear to be so at least in Star Trek parlance. You have it happen from time to time but then you have that guy Rasmussen who had a time pod and went to the future with little to no ramifications that we know of. Which, ultimately, is how time travel is treated. It can be very casual or have huge ramifications. So, the implication is that time travel can be monitored in such a way that limits that impact. Which, would make sense given what we saw with the Timeship Relativity, which indicates the ability to monitor time streams. So, you basically have the option of limiting access to the tech, as the major powers have done through the ban and knowing that past authorities are able to monitor and correct.
If time travel was so freaking dangerous then Kirk wouldn't have used it so casually.
Lets face it no ban can ever be 100% effective - much like today a ban will discourage the majority but I'd imagine it still goes on to some extent.
As for why an organisation like Emerald Chain would abide by such a ban I'm not sure - I suppose there's a huge risk that by tampering with the past you can create any number of unforeseen consequences that could impact negatively on you as well as your enemy.
As for why an organisation like Emerald Chain would abide by such a ban I'm not sure - I suppose there's a huge risk that by tampering with the past you can create any number of unforeseen consequences that could impact negatively on you as well as your enemy.
The Emerald Chain strikes me as a big organization flexing its muscles but also very pragmatic. Time travel sounds good-in theory. Until you send a ship and you can't get it back. Then you are out a ship and a crew.
Voyager developed temporal shielding in the 2370s, so presumably such technology is somewhat wide-spread in the post Temporal Wars years. Former Temporal Powers then would be unaffected by timeline changes, and able to detect them. Then they could deal with the offender, potentially also using time travel and reset everything to normel.
The Emerald Chain is a very, very large polity. They're both on the far side of the Beta Quadrant *and* by Earth, larger than any government in Star Trek history, unless we assume they operate in pockets (which they probably do, but I believe that all governments do to an extent). And this is more impressive when you realize they exist in a time of limited travel, communications, and apparently have one singular leader.
What they seem to want is recognition. Their technology is more impressive than the Federation at this time. Abiding by certain treaties and accords (especially since half their core leadership is a Federation founder and likely signatory to that Accord) seems prudent if they have the end goal of recognition.
That they engage in slavery and prime directive violations is the major burden on them, but this doesn't really differentiate them from the Klingons or Romulans of old.
All I have to say about this episode is that I'm really disappointed with their explanation of the Burn.
The reason why I have loved Star Trek so much is that the science of everything had a plausible explanation that was believable - in the sense, yeah I can see us developing that in the future, or yeah thats possible given what we know about physics and the universe. In this case their explanations are really lacking and sounds like the writers are just weaving a bunch of mumbo jumbo into the story to make it 'sound' sciency but they are just making it look silly.
Another complaint - what is up with this whole Gray character and Adera? I feel it adds nothing to the story, like Adera was such a boring character by herself (err themselves?) that they had to invent this sidekick to spice things up, when really its just making things more convoluted and confusing by having Gray there all the time.
But anyway that Burn thing, I'll never get over that unless the next episode seriously does a better job at explaining it.
I mean scared Kelpian screaming destabilizes dilithium everywhere is really far fetched.
The reason why I have loved Star Trek so much is that the science of everything had a plausible explanation that was believable - in the sense, yeah I can see us developing that in the future, or yeah thats possible given what we know about physics and the universe. In this case their explanations are really lacking and sounds like the writers are just weaving a bunch of mumbo jumbo into the story to make it 'sound' sciency but they are just making it look silly.
Another complaint - what is up with this whole Gray character and Adera? I feel it adds nothing to the story, like Adera was such a boring character by herself (err themselves?) that they had to invent this sidekick to spice things up, when really its just making things more convoluted and confusing by having Gray there all the time.
But anyway that Burn thing, I'll never get over that unless the next episode seriously does a better job at explaining it.
Yep, themselves
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