Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x11 - "Su'Kal"

[jackoverfull]

And they don't even have pre-pubescent crewmembers or a psychotic killer, like Lon Suder, to regain control.

well, the pre-pubescent crewmember and the psychotic killer (pardon, emotionally unstable, trigger-happy, former first officer) are still at large and could retake the ship next week...

 

[Lord Garth]

well, the pre-pubescent crewmember and the psychotic killer (pardon, emotionally unstable, trigger-happy, former first officer) are still at large and could retake the ship next week...

Adira doesn't look pre-pubescent to me. Probably more like late-pubescent.

It's been a long time since I've seen "Basics", but I think it was The Doctor, Paris, and Suder combined who saved the ship. Who's who in DSC... uhhh, Culber is The Doctor (obviously), Burnham is Paris (both were in prison, both were demoted), and Adira can't be Suder. I'm going with the Kelpian they found is Suder. And along for the ride we've got Saru, Book, and Adira.

 

[jackoverfull]

Adira doesn't look pre-pubescent to me. Probably more like late-pubescent.

yep...and Michael isn’t actually a psychotic killer...just joking

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Tilly made fundamental mistakes when dealing with an enemy. She underestimated Osyraa and was more reactive than proactive.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

pardon, emotionally unstable, trigger-happy, former first officer

"Qu'est ce-que c'est?"

 

[XelosTi]

I liked the episode, even if it was uneven.

But I will be so upset if Saru or Culber end up dieng next week.

 

[eschaton]

They've progressively downgraded the spore drive from the first season.

• The first season established that it could travel to any point in the universe instantaneously. Further, it got them to the MU (meaning it can cross into alternate universes) and even allow time travel.
  
  
• In the second season, all ability to travel through time and across universes was forgotten. It was explicitly said Control could follow them anywhere, which presumably is why they didn't even bother jumping to Andromeda or something to get away with the Sphere Data
  
  
• Now, a regular warp drive can get to a place they jump to within a matter of hours.

Let me be honest here though: I don't blame the current writers. I blame the idiots behind the first season concept. They created a God-drive which can basically push an "I win" button any time. It demolishes just about any conceivable Trek story if you take it to its logical conclusion. So they basically just act as if the earlier powers of the drive never even existed.

 

[eschaton]

Tilly made fundamental mistakes when dealing with an enemy. She underestimated Osyraa and was more reactive than proactive.

Saru was also awful this week when the ship started taking damage when it first entered the nebula. Tilly said absolutely nothing to disabuse him of his course of action. If it wasn't for Michael stepping in they all would have died.

Honestly, I think the dressing down that Saru has periodically gotten from Vance is the tell of the writers. They are lampshading that he is unfit for command.

 

[jackoverfull]

I liked the episode, even if it was uneven.

But I will be so upset if Saru or Culber end up dieng next week.

i can’t see the show kill off Saru. Not unless he comes back almost immediately, anyway.

Culber’s death sure has been hinted today...but again?!

 

[SolarisOne]

Im starting to think you are actually just a troll. If Riker walked out of the shower and it was all a dream you would be telling everyone how inspired it was and how amazing a piece of writing

What the hell?!

 

[thribs]

That’s one of the most annoying things about Discovery. We never know where these locations are and how far they are between each other. For all we know this nebula is in the delta quadrant and we’re 20,000 light years from the place we last last met her.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

i can’t see the show kill off Saru. Not unless he comes back almost immediately, anyway.

Culber’s death sure has been hinted today...but again?!

Su'Kal falls for Hugh and blows up half the Alpha Quadrant when he goes back to Paul...

 

[fireproof78]

Let me be honest here though: I don't blame the current writers. I blame the idiots behind the first season concept. They created a God-drive which can basically push an "I win" button any time. It demolishes just about any conceivable Trek story if you take it to its logical conclusion. So they basically just act as if the earlier powers of the drive never even existed.

Given the cluster of BTS stuff going on in Season 1 it's easy to dismiss. That said, head canon is simply that the spores of the network are becoming more resistant to Discovery's intrusions, thus limiting access.

 

[Lord Garth]

It's Star Trek, just not good Star Trek.

I found the episode generally frustrating.

• The kid did it isn't a trope I wanted to revisit.
• The explanation of how the kid did it just was not fascinating. It seems too much early sci fi.
• Human Saru was pretty awesome. It was fascinating to see Doug Jones performance without a mask, but moreover, it was still compelling.
• The interaction between Burnham and Sukal was pretty neat, filled with both empathy and thought.
• This episode could have used a good speech about duty. It took things too far with expositing on doubt and feelings without coming back to what is expected of them and what they are willing to sacrifice in order to achieve a greater good. Compare to the good byes in "A Call to Arms."
• Michael, stop telling Saru what to do. Follow his orders.
• Tilly, stop looking for affirmation from the crew. Give them orders.
• Not sure what to think of the easy take over of the ship.

I don't disagree with any of this, except for one thing. I think Saru is having a hard time being objective with this mission. So he does need a check and balance... but Tilly should be that check since she's First Officer. Which she's not doing.

Once again showing... sorry, I love Tilly, but she's just not ready to be First Officer.

 

[Fateor]

Tilly made fundamental mistakes when dealing with an enemy. She underestimated Osyraa and was more reactive than proactive.

There's a reason someone switching from the Science track to the Command track is supposed to involve what basically amounts to a couple years worth of course loads.

 

[Jadeb]

Saru is such a convincing creation — between the makeup and Doug Jones’ excellent performance — that I kinda hated to see the illusion broken this episode. (Especially when the explanation for his human appearance made no sense.)

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I liked the episode, even if it was uneven.

But I will be so upset if Saru or Culber end up dieng next week.

Both actors made an announcement about being in season 4 so they aren't going anywhere. Culber's already died once anyway. I don't think the writers are going to go the 'kill your gays' trope anytime soon after the backlash last time.

 

[DaveyNY]

Do we know if the Shields need to be at a specific level in order for them to be able to jump?

Does Black Alert automatically raise the shields, and if they are below a certain level it does not function?

 

[Iconian]

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^ What happened to mighty Discovery? Lost without a single shot fired?

Someone bring back Capt. Lorca!

 

[Photoman15]

You don't need a leak for that part, either the on-screen explanation (which I don't think made sense or was the real one), or a tracking mechanism inside the subspace amplifier that uses Emerald Chain-technology works. However, knowing the name of the spore drive, knowing it needed a human pilot, who the pilot was and where they were to bring a mind control right to them... If they somehow got this from a scan of the ship, it's still an immense security breach and an oversight in security measures, even if no humans were involved in the disclosure, but it is also incredible enough that it's very hard to imagine how it happened without someone on the inside to feed them information.

There aren't many options:
- A Discovery crewman from the 23rd century. Individually they would be the least suspect, as they had neither the time to leave the ship and interact with anyone, nor the motivation to connect with someone from an unknown antagonist force, randomly; especially after they were willing to abandon their own time for the ship's mission. It's still the prime possibility because of the sheer number of Discovery crewmembers (and still someone could pull a Seska), but anyone individually can be moved to the bottom of the list automatically.
- An unnamed member of the renovation crew. Also sheer number, but with much bigger chance. It's the most likely, but it would be odd choice for a story to have a spy and not somehow introduce them.

- Booker. Don't like this option. Doesn't fit with anything about his character we've seen so far. Doing 180° in his case would not be good story.
- Admiral Vance. He's the one most intimately familiar. Something feels good about Discovery proving themselves by uncovering a conspiracy on that level, it also compounds a bit of distrust I still feel towards the Federation, but it's both unrealistic for Discovery to become saviours again and I also happen to like Vance.
- Lt. Willa. Could be. I suspected her before there was anything to suspect!
- Adira. Please NO. In hindsight some of the pieces would fit, they forced themselves on the ship, but still NO.
- The Andorian guy.
- The character played by Cronenberg. Albeit, fan theory: If that's revealed to be the answer, there would be a twist that the leak was done in the interest of the Federation, not the Emerald Chain. Somehow. It wouldn't make sense, but that's what it would be.

It's Gray. Why can only Adira see him/her? Is Gray real and a really good hologram reporting back to the Emerald City?