Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 1x10 - "No Small Parts"

[Sci]

Are the writers of Discovery and Picard kicking themselves

Nope.

the correct use of the Riker/Troi cameo

The uses of Riker in "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II" and "No Small Parts" were both the correct usages for their respective shows.

(and the ship they arrived in,

"No Small Parts" is set some time in 2380. "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II" is set 19 years later, in 2399. It would be implausible for Riker to still be in command of the Titan after 20 years, particularly if he spent a significant part of that time raising a child with severe health issues as established on PIC. Not having the Titan in "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II" is a completely reasonable creative choice.

and the music that accompanied it)

The different kinds of music in each episode reflect the differing creative goals of each episode. A story is not bad just because it was not the story you wanted to see.

And let's not forget what Iris Ira Steven Behr wanted to really do for the DS9 finale... Yeah I'm sure fans would have loved to know that DS9 was just the fevered dream of some 1950s African American science fiction writer.

I agree that ending DS9 as Benny Russell's story would not have been the best creative choice, but I find your characterization of the Benny Russell character offensive. "Far Beyond the Stars" was a really important episode that tackled head-on themes and tensions that Star Trek ignores far too often, and Benny Russell deserves mores respect than to call him "some 1950s African American science fiction writer."

 

[cooleddie74]

The U.S.S. Eagle is registry number NCC-956 and that ship is widely classified in Paramount-approved materials as one of the Constitution-class starships of the TOS and TOS Movie Eras.

 

[Noname Given]

Nope.



The uses of Riker in "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II" and "No Small Parts" were both the correct usages for their respective shows.



"No Small Parts" is set some time in 2380. "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II" is set 19 years later, in 2399. It would be implausible for Riker to still be in command of the Titan after 20 years, particularly if he spent a significant part of that time raising a child with severe health issues as established on PIC. Not having the Titan in "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II" is a completely reasonable creative choice.



The different kinds of music in each episode reflect the differing creative goals of each episode. A story is not bad just because it was not the story you wanted to see.



I agree that ending DS9 as Benny Russell's story would not have been the best creative choice, but I find your characterization of the Benny Russell character offensive. "Far Beyond the Stars" was a really important episode that tackled head-on themes and tensions that Star Trek ignores far too often, and Benny Russell deserves mores respect than to call him "some 1950s African American science fiction writer."

Wait how is my characterization offensive? I was just stating the fact as that's what the character was and how he was portrayed.

I'm not denigrating the episode far beyond the stars or its content, but he was portrayed as some no name African American science fiction writer in the 1950s. show me in the episode where he got any awards for anything that you wrote or was considered anything special by the publisher he worked for? That was part of the point of the episode. Yes he was a good writer but he was completely unrecognized, underutilized, and not given the the due for his talent that he deserved.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah I'm sure fans would have loved to know that DS9 was just the fevered dream of some 1950s African American science fiction writer.

I would have loved that.

 

[BillJ]

I would have loved that.

If Deep Space Nine weren't part of a greater franchise, it would have worked. As part of a greater franchise? It simply doesn't work.

 

[Sci]

Wait how is my characterization offensive? I was just stating the fact as that's what the character was and how he was portrayed.

I'm not denigrating the episode far beyond the stars or its content, but he was portrayed as some no name African American science fiction writer in the 1950s. show me in the episode where he got any awards for anything that you wrote or was considered anything special by the publisher he worked for? That was part of the point of the episode. Yes he was a good writer but he was completely unrecognized, underutilized, and not given the the due for his talent that he deserved.

It's kind of offensive to call one of the most important characters on the show, and one of the only characters in all of Star Trek who acknowledges the existence of and meaningfully fights against white supremacy, "some African American writer." However prominent or not prominent he may have been in-universe, he's an important character metatextually. Calling him "some African American writer" discounts the importance of Benny Russell as a character in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek as a whole. Please don't do that.

 

[Tuskin38]

It's kind of offensive to call one of the most important characters on the show, and one of the only characters in all of Star Trek who acknowledges the existence of and meaningfully fights against white supremacy, "some African American writer." However prominent or not prominent he may have been in-universe, he's an important character metatextually. Calling him "some African American writer" discounts the importance of Benny Russell as a character in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek as a whole. Please don't do that.

They're talking about in the context of the episode, not real life.

 

[Tuskin38]

One thing that bugged me. How did Riker know when to come and know they were Pakleds? They say that their distress call didn’t get out.

The system they were in is owned by the Pakleds according to a TNG episode.
So he may have just assumed.

 

[Sci]

It's kind of offensive to call one of the most important characters on the show, and one of the only characters in all of Star Trek who acknowledges the existence of and meaningfully fights against white supremacy, "some African American writer." However prominent or not prominent he may have been in-universe, he's an important character metatextually. Calling him "some African American writer" discounts the importance of Benny Russell as a character in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek as a whole. Please don't do that.

They're talking about in the context of the episode, not real life.

And I'm talking about it in the context of real life, which is more important.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That seemed to me an issue with the map, not the sensors.

I'd think they'd still have sensors active even if they were following a map.
As in the Doomsday Machine

SULU: Sir, we're now within the limits of System L-370, but I can't seem to locate
SPOCK: Captain, sensors show this entire solar system has been destroyed. Nothing left but rubble and asteroids.
KIRK: But that's incredible. The star in this system is still intact. Only a nova could destroy like that.
SPOCK: Nonetheless, Captain, sensors show nothing but debris where we charted seven planets last year.

 

[DEWLine]

The U.S.S. Eagle is registry number NCC-956 and that ship is widely classified in Paramount-approved materials as one of the Constitution-class starships of the TOS and TOS Movie Eras.

The more I think about that and Decker Sr.'s Constellation 1017, I lean more towards them being part of an earlier batch of Constitutions. But I've gone over this before...

 

[cooleddie74]

Perhaps the Constitution, Enterprise, Eagle and Constellation were the first four to be built and commissioned?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Eagle doesn't have to be Constitution class.

Yes, on the Operation Retrieve plans, the Eagle was represented by an icon that looked vaguely like a Connie. But for all we know this could have been just a generic icon for ANY starship, regardless of class.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The more I think about that and Decker Sr.'s Constellation 1017, I lean more towards them being part of an earlier batch of Constitutions. But I've gone over this before...

My head canon has the low numbers as an older class that looks a lot like a Connie. The damaged parts of the Constellation just happen to be where the differences lie.

 

[Sarcastic Vulcan Salute]

It's kind of offensive to call one of the most important characters on the show, and one of the only characters in all of Star Trek who acknowledges the existence of and meaningfully fights against white supremacy, "some African American writer." However prominent or not prominent he may have been in-universe, he's an important character metatextually. Calling him "some African American writer" discounts the importance of Benny Russell as a character in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek as a whole. Please don't do that.

Sisko is the most important character on DS9 and one of the most important characters in the Star Trek franchise. Sisko did indeed acknowledge the existence of white supremacy but he did not fight against it, meaningfully or otherwise, because it did not exist in his time. (I suppose one could say that when he assumed the persona of Gabriel Bell in Past Tense he did, but as presented in the episode, the issue was class rather than race.)

As great as "Far Beyond the Stars" was and as great as it was to have ST address white supremacy head-on rather than through allegory, Benny Russell wasn't real, isn't one of the most important characters in DS9 by any reasonable definition of the word "important," and did not meaningfully fight against white supremacy since his goal (noble as it was) was relatively limited (publish a story with an African American hero), since he did not achieve that goal or come close to it, and most importantly since he was imaginary. It is not a sign of disrespect to "Far Beyond the Stars" to describe Benny Russell as "some African American writer." That's what he was.

 

[Danja]

I'm sure fans would have loved to know that DS9 was just the fevered dream of some 1950s African American science fiction writer.

M. Night Shyamalan would like a word with you ...

 

[Sci]

As great as "Far Beyond the Stars" was and as great as it was to have ST address white supremacy head-on rather than through allegory, Benny Russell wasn't real,

No Star Trek character is real. That doesn't mean they're not metatextually important.

isn't one of the most important characters in DS9 by any reasonable definition of the word "important,"

"Far Beyond the Stars" is one of the most important and critically acclaimed Star Trek episodes ever produced. It is an episode that not only addresses white supremacy head-on, but it examines the relationship between white supremacy and Star Trek as a whole, criticizing Star Trek's historical tendency to make white guys the most important characters in its fictional universe while celebrating Star Trek's capacity to inspire hope in marginalized people if it starts putting greater emphasis on characters who are not white. And unlike many programs even today, "Far Beyond the Stars" is willing to actively depict the ways in which American police forces functioned and continue to function as white supremacist institutions enforcing a brutal racialized hierarchy. It is absolutely one of the most important episodes ever produced of both Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and of Star Trek as a franchise, and dismissing the importance of its central character is offensive.

Please do not refer to Benny Russell as "some African American."

 

[CorporalClegg]

Benny Russell wasn't real

...Too easy.

 

[NCC-73515]

If Deep Space Nine weren't part of a greater franchise, it would have worked. As part of a greater franchise? It simply doesn't work.

If the station and some of the characters hadn't been on TNG and VOY, and TNG characters hadn't been on DS9, it would've worked and might've been interesting.

 

[Mudd]

If Deep Space Nine weren't part of a greater franchise, it would have worked. As part of a greater franchise? It simply doesn't work.

If something's good, it's good. Deep Space Nine isn't one of my fave Trek shows, but that's not because it somehow wasn't a good fit for the franchise.

The Benny Russell episode was one of my favorites of the episodes I saw (I also liked most of the Ferengi episodes) and I was delighted at the way he suddenly reappeared in that sequence in the final season. I think I'd have liked the "Benny Russell" ending for DS9 far better than the way the show played out.

Having the events of the series be the wish-fulfillment storytelling of an African-American writer during a difficult age* would have been a marvelous framing to put on the show. Trek hasn't had anything much meaningful to say about race much since the initial casting of a black actor as a bridge officer on the Enterprise in TOS.


*Like, any time in the last four or five centuries.