More TOS engine room pics

[Ian Simpson]

Hi guys, I have been working on some lighting in engineering and the transporter room. I have noticed that in the series some of the lighting seemed "mottled"? I have posted some updates. Improvement or not?
Enginering 1 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
Engineering 2 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
Transporter 2 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
Transporter 1 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
Transporter 3 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

 

[plynch]

Why, oh why, did they paint the walls part purple?

Stellar work, though. Forwardig to my daughter, as I do Donnie's.

 

[yotsuya]

In that case the 4-way plans of the Captain's Cabin and the Briefing Room should.
Bear in mind though that they are plans for the S1 Briefing Room, which was extended by 48" at the start of S2

Where did you find the 48". I'd like to have the documentation.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Mmmmmm.... Purple walls.... 'Tis awesome!

 

[Mytran]

Where did you find the 48". I'd like to have the documentation.

The figure is drawn from my studies from several years ago so I thought I'd revisit it.

Comparing the BOT stage plans to the JTB stage plans shows the difference pretty clearly - the end wall sticks out a lot more in the S2 version and the floor struts are in different positions in relation to the adjacent corridor.

The six 4' panels are clear to see in the S2 image which (including the five 1½" silver strips) adds up to a 24'7½" wall length.

Using the diagram from the Charlie X stage plan (which helpfully lists the wall panel widths) the same stretch of wall adds up to 19'7½" but the angled wall section does appear a little shorter in S1 for some reason, approx 2' difference. I suspect this is an error on the S2 sketch
That final wall panel also sticks out more beyond the outer angled panel in the S2 diagram, so just measuring the panel sections is not sufficient.
Measuring from the wall on the door end to the bottom of the angled strut yields a length of
S1 - 16'4½"
S2 - 19'6"

So in fact I had misremembered, because inside the room it is more like a 3' difference than a 4' difference.

Recently however I have grown to trust the stage plans less than I used to. They are fine as a general guide but not necessarily what was actually built for the series. Your question caused me to double check and I'm glad I did.

For onscreen evidence, I suggest comparing the final shot of The Menagerie http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x11hd/themenageriepart1hd610.jpg
To this scene from Wolf In The Fold
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x14hd/wolfinthefoldhd1062.jpg

The rooms are the same on the right of the overhanding concentric beam. As for the panels on the left, look at the length(s) of the final whole panel on each picture and the shape of the angled beams - they are not the same.
There is at least a 2' difference in between the two shots.

So it's gone from 4' to 3' to 2'
Interesting
But unless the angles of the back wall changed from S1 to S2 (and I can't think why they would bother) then a 2' expansion seems to be the correct figure

 

[yotsuya]

The figure is drawn from my studies from several years ago so I thought I'd revisit it.

Comparing the BOT stage plans to the JTB stage plans shows the difference pretty clearly - the end wall sticks out a lot more in the S2 version and the floor struts are in different positions in relation to the adjacent corridor.

The six 4' panels are clear to see in the S2 image which (including the five 1½" silver strips) adds up to a 24'7½" wall length.

Using the diagram from the Charlie X stage plan (which helpfully lists the wall panel widths) the same stretch of wall adds up to 19'7½" but the angled wall section does appear a little shorter in S1 for some reason, approx 2' difference. I suspect this is an error on the S2 sketch
That final wall panel also sticks out more beyond the outer angled panel in the S2 diagram, so just measuring the panel sections is not sufficient.
Measuring from the wall on the door end to the bottom of the angled strut yields a length of
S1 - 16'4½"
S2 - 19'6"

So in fact I had misremembered, because inside the room it is more like a 3' difference than a 4' difference.

Recently however I have grown to trust the stage plans less than I used to. They are fine as a general guide but not necessarily what was actually built for the series. Your question caused me to double check and I'm glad I did.

For onscreen evidence, I suggest comparing the final shot of The Menagerie http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x11hd/themenageriepart1hd610.jpg
To this scene from Wolf In The Fold
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x14hd/wolfinthefoldhd1062.jpg

The rooms are the same on the right of the overhanding concentric beam. As for the panels on the left, look at the length(s) of the final whole panel on each picture and the shape of the angled beams - they are not the same.
There is at least a 2' difference in between the two shots.

So it's gone from 4' to 3' to 2'
Interesting
But unless the angles of the back wall changed from S1 to S2 (and I can't think why they would bother) then a 2' expansion seems to be the correct figure

Thanks for all that. I knew it was bigger because it was used for the chapel in Balance of Terror and in The Tholian Web and in season 3 there is an extra row of benches that just wouldn't have fit in season 1.

 

[Mytran]

Thanks for all that. I knew it was bigger because it was used for the chapel in Balance of Terror and in The Tholian Web and in season 3 there is an extra row of benches that just wouldn't have fit in season 1.

An extra row of benches??? Well, if you're going to go and take the EASY route to finding the answer...

Speaking of the chapel, I suspect the side door configuration in BOT and TTW (and DOTD) would be different in those episodes as well. I'll check it out later

 

[Ian Simpson]

So I spent an hour this morning making the burke chair with arm rests for the rec room, do they look right? not sure. To complete the rec room set I have been looking for some rec room games and I think there is some recreation computers, any ideas where I can get drawings for these. I have found screenshots but I can't work out dimensions from those.
burk chairs 2 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

 

[blssdwlf]

@Ian Simpson - It's a good start on the Burke 116 chairs. The front lip seems a bit too wide. I can't tell from the angle but does the armrest flare out as it goes to the back?

 

[Ian Simpson]

@Ian Simpson - It's a good start on the Burke 116 chairs. The front lip seems a bit too wide. I can't tell from the angle but does the armrest flare out as it goes to the back?

Yes it does I will adjust the front lip and post again. Thanks

 

[BK613]

@Ian Simpson Agree with blssdwlf: The lip is way too much. Here is a good reference picture from The Conscience of the King:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x13hd/theconscienceofthekinghd277.jpg

As blssdwlf indicated, the base chair is a Burke 116. Throwing in the term 'tulip chair' can also help but be advised that the original tulip chairs were by Eero Saarinen in the 1950s. The bases on Saarinen's chairs are usually round and Burke's chairs usually have the propeller-shaped bases.

 

[Ian Simpson]

So I have flanged out the arms at the back and reduced the lip.
HighresScreenshot00000 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

 

[Ian Simpson]

Top view
HighresScreenshot00000 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

 

[blssdwlf]

Top view
HighresScreenshot00000 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

A definite improvement . From your new image I'd suggest widening the back where the armrests meet the back as the armrests look like they are intruding in. At the front of the seat, the bottom (where the legs rest) should be a little narrower than where the armrests are. Lastly, the seat back can be reclined more based on the TOS reference image BK613 linked to.

Also, I don't know how accurate you want to get but another place to get good reference shots is at used furniture sites and search under Burke 116. (Or PM me and I can send you reference images I've collected over the years.)

 

[BK613]

You might also see if @Donny has any links to images since he was working on these chairs last year(ish) IIRC.

 

[Mytran]

Top view
HighresScreenshot00000 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

It's fascinating to watch you tweak and improve a complex 3D shape like the Burke chair, such details are way outside my realm of knowledge. To me,, all the chairs look great!
I did notice however that the wall panels have been modelled with the same instep that the corridors featured in TOS. Rooms in TOS did not generally have that instep, the panels went all the way to the ground. Don't ask me why though!
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x04hd/thenakedtimehd0993.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x07hd/dayofthedovehd0435.jpg

@yotsuya as I suspected the side door on the Briefing Room (used as the main door on the chapel) feels a lot more "crammed in" on the S1 set.
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd023.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd0849.jpg
The door alcove in S1 seems to even slightly overlap the edge of the support strut - what were the Starfleet designers thinking?

 

[Ian Simpson]

It's fascinating to watch you tweak and improve a complex 3D shape like the Burke chair, such details are way outside my realm of knowledge. To me,, all the chairs look great!
I did notice however that the wall panels have been modelled with the same instep that the corridors featured in TOS. Rooms in TOS did not generally have that instep, the panels went all the way to the ground. Don't ask me why though!
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x04hd/thenakedtimehd0993.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x07hd/dayofthedovehd0435.jpg

@yotsuya as I suspected the side door on the Briefing Room (used as the main door on the chapel) feels a lot more "crammed in" on the S1 set.
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd023.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd0849.jpg
The door alcove in S1 seems to even slightly overlap the edge of the support strut - what were the Starfleet designers thinking?

Hi thanks, Not sure what you mean by "instep" so you mean the black inset at the bottom of the walls?

 

[Ian Simpson]

A definite improvement . From your new image I'd suggest widening the back where the armrests meet the back as the armrests look like they are intruding in. At the front of the seat, the bottom (where the legs rest) should be a little narrower than where the armrests are. Lastly, the seat back can be reclined more based on the TOS reference image BK613 linked to.

Also, I don't know how accurate you want to get but another place to get good reference shots is at used furniture sites and search under Burke 116. (Or PM me and I can send you reference images I've collected over the years.)

Fair enough, I have just found 2 images of the Burke 116 chair without the TOS padding So I'll do a quick adjust and post in a while. Thanks.

 

[Ian Simpson]

Hopefully 3 times the charm.
Serves me right o think I could model this in one hour lol HighresScreenshot00000 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

 

[yotsuya]

There were several different types of chairs used. The most common was armless with the X base. The next was the armed with the X base. But there was also the armed with the round (tulip) base that matched many of the tables. I have yet to notice or find a photo of an armless chair with the round base. There is also a different chair used in The Cage briefing room scene that appears to be a similar, but very different design. Then there are the suttlecraft seats. And they were done in the blue-gray with back cushions and backs and also white with the orange/gold on the seats and backs.