Recommendations for a film video camera?

[Admiral Archer]

I'm sure there are lots of people on here besides myself who would like to know more about this, but where can I find a good old fashioned analog film camera for shooting video? I may or may not do a Star Trek fan film with it, but I think my evolution as a movie maker has hit an impasse; I've very little desire to continue using computers or digital technology, and would like to shoot a movie with actual film, and not some digital reproduction. I realize this is not a cheap business, and is probably going to be expensive in some form or fashion, but if someone could point me in the direction of the most cost-efficient camera for someone on a shoestring budget, I'd appreciate it much! Thanks guys!

 

[Maurice]

Okay, first of all you're mixing up lingo and making this confusing. You don't use film cameras to shoot video.

Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Shooting on Super 8mm (link)

Total cost of one roll Super 8 film in 2020 (link)

Super 8 is the only format a no budget guy is gonna manage. 16mm is too pricy. You can get Super 8 Sound cameras, but, fair warning, not all of them are sound, so you have to be careful. Shooting on motion picture film can be a world of hurt. Film costs $$$, and you have to pay to have it developed. Each roll of Super8 is gonna give you about 3 minutes. If you blow a lot of takes, you're gonna waste a lot of film. Furthermore, you can't see how it came out until it comes back from the lab. And if you don't want to use digital for post, you're gonna have to buy some kind of editor and splicing tape, etc.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

@Admiral Archer, If that's what you want to do, good luck to you. However, you should know that, given image data of sufficient quality, you can basically manipulate the image pipeline to make any digital image look like film and vice versa. Here's a paper written about it by cinematographer Steve Yedlin: http://www.yedlin.net/OnColorScience/index.html

There's more info about him in this YouTube video on the movie Knives Out:

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Watch from 2:49 to 5:14 (or just the whole video, and the movie it's about, because Knives Out is awesome). A lot of characteristics commonly associated with film can be replicated using mathematical manipulation of the digital image data, and you'd literally need to have the exact same scene shot with film running side-by-side to tell the difference.

 

[Admiral Archer]

Okay, first of all you're mixing up lingo and making this confusing. You don't use film cameras to shoot video.

I'm afraid I am confused after all. What do you call a camera that uses film, including but not limited to Super 8, to shoot movies on? If I knew the lingo, it would certainly make my ebay search more helpful. LOL

You have to remember, by the time I started fiddling with movies, digital was EVERYWHERE. You couldn't escape it, and it seems even worse now. I am just sick and tired of using computers, and want to A) try something a bit different, and B) test my mettle.

 

[Noname Given]

I'm afraid I am confused after all. What do you call a camera that uses film, including but not limited to Super 8, to shoot movies on? If I knew the lingo, it would certainly make my ebay search more helpful. LOL

You have to remember, by the time I started fiddling with movies, digital was EVERYWHERE. You couldn't escape it, and it seems even worse now. I am just sick and tired of using computers, and want to A) try something a bit different, and B) test my mettle.

Just be aware that places that actually develop actual film are becoming rare and much more expensive, as is the film itself.

Also editing physical film is a much more involved process than editing digital video on a PC.

 

[Maurice]

I'm afraid I am confused after all. What do you call a camera that uses film, including but not limited to Super 8, to shoot movies on? If I knew the lingo, it would certainly make my ebay search more helpful. LOL

You have to remember, by the time I started fiddling with movies, digital was EVERYWHERE. You couldn't escape it, and it seems even worse now. I am just sick and tired of using computers, and want to A) try something a bit different, and B) test my mettle.

First, disregard Matthew (sorry) because he is offering a digital "look" answer which is anathema to your stated desire to do something analog with Stone Knives and Bear Skins.

The Lingo:

• Videotape shoots video (VHS, Beta)
• Digital videotape shoots digital video (Digital 8, Hi8, Mini DV, etc.)
• Film cameras shoot FILM (8mm, Super 8, 16mm, etc.)

You search for the camera type for the format you want. I suspect you can't afford to make a 16mm sound film.

I suggest you watch this to get an overview of the technology.

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WARNING! I had forgotten that you can no longer get Super 8 sound film, so any 8mm film solution is going to be 100% silent.

If you decide to go down this path you're going to need :

• A Super 8 Camera
• A Super 8 Editor machine and Splicing Tape
• A Super 8 Projector if you want to show the film on anything but the tiny screen of the Editor

Your going to have to order film in the correct format and pay to have reach roll developed before you can even look it at, let alone develop it.

After all that, when you make a film it's going to be silent. You won't be able to show it to anyone except people who come to see in on your projector or editor. No way to upload it anywhere unless you have it scanned/telecined, which is an additional expense.

Is that really what you want?

 

[Professor Zoom]

Is that really what you want?

Agreed.

I would think very deeply about that. If I was making a film, I would rather be spending my time and money getting it done, rather than waiting for film to develop, editing on film, etc, etc. I get the desire to do something different, but it is SO much easier and cheaper to do it digitally.

Oh, man, could you imagine fucking up splicing the film while you're editing? Money down the drain.

I know we spend a lot of time on computers, but the fact I can make a quality looking film with my phone and then edit it with software that comes free on my computer--iMovie--so I can quickly get to the creative stuff... I'm constantly amazed at how much I can do with iMovie alone .... and there are better programs out there.

There's a reason why film and film editing was abandoned so quickly once the tech reached a certain quality.

 

[Maurice]

Well, I would like to play with film film again but doing post on it in the analog way isn't part of the experience I'm keen to repeat.

 

[Admiral Archer]

The only dealbreaker so far is no audio for the Super 8 film. Why would anyone in their right mind shoot film with no audio!? That's crazy talk!

Well, guess I'm stuck working with computers that regularly crash and delete half my work, or use fake looking uncanny valley digital effects for everything. I'm almost tempted to give up on filmmaking altogether.

 

[Professor Zoom]

The only dealbreaker so far is no audio for the Super 8 film. Why would anyone in their right mind shoot film with no audio!? That's crazy talk!

Well, guess I'm stuck working with computers that regularly crash and delete half my work, or use fake looking uncanny valley digital effects for everything. I'm almost tempted to give up on filmmaking altogether.

If the problem is your computer crashing, rather than investing in dead end technology, upgrade your computer.

 

[Admiral Archer]

If the problem is your computer crashing, rather than investing in dead end technology, upgrade your computer.

Sorry, I phrased that the wrong way. It's the PROGRAM that crashes, iMovie. It only does it sometimes, but when it does,

I guess I was just hoping to go back to a simpler time. I would actually enjoy every aspect of what I've heard of analog film editing. Splicing, taping, it all sounded so fun! No audio though?

 

[Noname Given]

Sorry, I phrased that the wrong way. It's the PROGRAM that crashes, iMovie. It only does it sometimes, but when it does,

I guess I was just hoping to go back to a simpler time. I would actually enjoy every aspect of what I've heard of analog film editing. Splicing, taping, it all sounded so fun! No audio though?

There was nothing really simple about photographing, developing, or editing actual film stock.

Comparatively speaking, capturing digital video and manipulating and editing it (including any sound recorded) is MUCH EASIER, then the supposed 'simpler time' when actual film stock was much more prevalently used.

 

[Maurice]

Sorry, I phrased that the wrong way. It's the PROGRAM that crashes, iMovie. It only does it sometimes, but when it does,

I guess I was just hoping to go back to a simpler time. I would actually enjoy every aspect of what I've heard of analog film editing. Splicing, taping, it all sounded so fun! No audio though?

The occasional software crash is no big deal if the software autosaves. The think about film is once you cut the film it's CUT. You cannot undo the splice. It's a destructive process.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Sorry, I phrased that the wrong way. It's the PROGRAM that crashes, iMovie. It only does it sometimes, but when it does,

If it’s crashing, it still might be your hardware. Either more memory is needed or a new computer.

or you could get different editing software. Lots out there. You could even get the same kind professionals use. That might be more stable for longer projects. But I’ve edited short films, 2 to 12 minutes on IMovie with no problems. For me, it’s great.

I guess I was just hoping to go back to a simpler time. I would actually enjoy every aspect of what I've heard of analog film editing. Splicing, taping, it all sounded so fun! No audio though?

I remember back in college editing sound effects on reel to reel. While obviously not film editing, but I wouldn’t go back to it. Not with the ease and quality and the ability to undo mistakes that digital brings.

consider all the time you will spend on developing and splicing and finding the equipment that you could have spent on editing on a computer.

 

[XCV330]

lomography.com has interesting products for people who like to experiment with film on the cheap side.

https://shop.lomography.com/en/cameras/lomokino-family?country=us
that might not be what you are looking for.

I grew up in a Kodak family, so Super 8 is what I am familiar with. We had lots of home movies done on the stuff. You can still get it, but its extremely expensive. There are still a few places that process it, though so in that regard you are in luck.

 

[Professor Zoom]

The camera they are selling shoots up to 6 seconds of film. Lol. Definitely a short film.

 

[MikeH92467]

If it’s crashing, it still might be your hardware. Either more memory is needed or a new computer.

I remember back in college editing sound effects on reel to reel. While obviously not film editing, but I wouldn’t go back to it. Not with the ease and quality and the ability to undo mistakes that digital brings.

consider all the time you will spend on developing and splicing and finding the equipment that you could have spent on editing on a computer.

I grew up in the age of editing blocks, grease pencils and razor blades as well. I wouldn't go back either. I'm a competent digital editor but even when I was at my most accomplished with mechanical editing, I would still need minutes or even hours to do what I can accomplish in seconds or minutes digitally. I could still slice and dice tape if I had to, but there's no way I would want to.

I'll second the idea of upgraded computer hardware. The more RAM, the better. It's worth remembering that time is money and the time savings are so great that you'll quickly be ahead of the game.