What will make it "Star Trek"?

[Orphalesion]

That these experiences are not unique to the people experiencing them. I may not want to see all of the ugliness of the human experience but there is an aspect of being able to say "This experience is just not only my own."

Yeah I understand that, and I see the merit in that. But feel you don't have to write about mobsters, drug addicts or Don Draper to get the "human experience".
Case in point; don't laugh now, and don't be fooled by the animated adaption, but the Last Unicorn is, in my opinion, one of the best written and most intelligent books I've ever read (and I read a lot)
It's about unfilled dreams, suffering, aging, greed, disillusionment, the search for "magic" in a world that just doesn't hand it to you. it has layers upon layers of meaning. It intelligently plays with the tropes of high fantasy. That's all the ugliness of human experience but painted in a much nicer colour than "the Sopranos"

 

[BillJ]

I found the twilight movies extremely enjoyable for the unintentional silliness of them. That said, I’m told the books were way better...

My wife read the books, I was subjected to the various films when they came out. I remember going to a midnight showing of one, can't remember which, and there were two thousand people at the theater. Ate a lot of Tylenol that night.

 

[BillJ]

That's all the ugliness of human experience but painted in a much nicer colour than "the Sopranos"

That is just the spectrum of humanity, sometimes people get more out of the ugliness than they do when its painted in nice colors.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah I understand that, and I see the merit in that. But feel you don't have to write about mobsters, drug addicts or Don Draper to get the "human experience".
Case in point; don't laugh now, and don't be fooled by the animated adaption, but the Last Unicorn is, in my opinion, one of the best written and most intelligent books I've ever read (and I read a lot)
It's about unfilled dreams, suffering, aging, greed, disillusionment, the search for "magic" in a world that just doesn't hand it to you. it has layers upon layers of meaning. It intelligently plays with the tropes of high fantasy. That's all the ugliness of human experience but painted in a much nicer colour than "the Sopranos"

And I welcome both. But, one hits many different experiences than another.

 

[ChallengerHK]

The point behind this thread and the poll was for me to test something. The premise was "There's no such thing as Star Trek." I've said this elsewhere, phrased as "Star Trek is nothing but a marketing term," and they amount to the same thing. Throughout the thread there's nothing like consensus. I think the closest we come to consensus is the "bright future" thing, and even on that there's significant disagreement.

I thought of this when I first read the thread about there being 6 Star Trek series on the air simultaneously. My first reaction was "No, there will be 6 things named Star Trek, but they may have nothing else in common."

This is necessarily a bad thing, nor a good thing. My overall point of view on the idea is that the name is put on a product to get you to watch it.

 

[Orphalesion]

"No, there will be 6 things named Star Trek, but they may have nothing else in common."

They are all set in space and in the future.

 

[ChallengerHK]

They are all set in space and in the future.

And before the other thread I came across this:

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/a-trek-series-set-in-the-present.305368/

Admittedly, this is fandom pondering rather than an official series, but I'd posit that as long as there is Trek there will be people thinking "How can I make MY Trek different" ... and then somebody who will pay them to make it.

 

[ChallengerHK]

They are all set in space and in the future.

The other element worth pointing out is that Space: Above and Beyond is set in space and in the future. Is it Star Trek? How about Futurama? A lot of people already consider The Orville to best the best Trek on the air.

 

[Orphalesion]

And before the other thread I came across this:

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/a-trek-series-set-in-the-present.305368/

And it's absolutely terrible, imo. And has very little chance of ever existing.

The other element worth pointing out is that Space: Above and Beyond is set in space and in the future. Is it Star Trek? How about Futurama? A lot of people already consider The Orville to best the best Trek on the air.

Of course not, are they named Star Trek? No.
Just saying that all Star Trek shows have a common ground in being set in space in the future.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Of course not, are they named Star Trek? No.
Just saying that all Star Trek shows have a common ground in being set in space in the future.

So Star Trek is a show (or, presumably a movie) set in space, in the future, with the name Star Trek? Is there anything else, or is that the sum of the definition?

 

[BillJ]

Just saying that all Star Trek shows have a common ground in being set in space in the future.

I think it is just a matter of time before we have a Trek series set on Earth during contemporary times. Almost happened with "Assignment: Earth" in 1968.

 

[Orphalesion]

So Star Trek is a show (or, presumably a movie) set in space, in the future, with the name Star Trek? Is there anything else, or is that the sum of the definition?

Being set in some permutation of the Star Trek universe?Can't really have Star Trek in Narnia.

I think it is just a matter of time before we have a Trek series set on Earth during contemporary times. Almost happened with "Assignment: Earth" in 1968.

I can't see it happen. It would lack too many of the elements all the other shows have, and I can't think of a scenario that wouldn't be basically be an original show just with the Star Trek name slapped onto it.

 

[BillJ]

It would lack too many of the elements all the other shows have, and I can't think of a scenario that wouldn't be basically be an original show just with the Star Trek name slapped onto it.

We already know Vulcans were buzzing around Earth, the Aegis were also interested in our development. We even have a Vulcan likely living on Earth during 2020 in the Trek universe, Mestral from "Carbon Creek". I remember a lot of the same objections to DS9 when it premiered. How can it be Star Trek when you're mostly staying in one place? Were the cries.

It can be done well, just like anything else. Can the current crop of live action writers do it well is another subject entirely.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Being set in some permutation of the Star Trek universe?Can't really have Star Trek in Narnia.

So if it can be a permutation, then Orville does count?

I'm giving you a hard time, but I think my questions are real. By saying a "permutation" we leave it open to being any kind of permutation. The permutation in which the Enterprise squares off against Godzilla would be permutation.

 

[Xhiandra]

To me, the important aspect is the exploration of themes, and an aspiration to tackle though societal debates, from a humanist lens. If it's going to be mindless space pew-pew filled with clichés and dialogue written by 5 year olds ("I like feeling feelings"), like Discovery, it's not really Star Trek for me.

The other aspects, I don't mind. Change the looks of everything if you want, but don't forget to add some depth..

 

[JesterFace]

Star Trek is about those things too.

Honestly, if Star Trek doesn't have relationships then I'm out. It's ostensibly about the human journey, how we survived to the future despite the dangers faced and were willing to work together as a species. That unity, not uniformity, would contribute to humanity's greater good and expansion across the stars. If that isn't about relationships then I honestly don't know what is.

I meant that soap operas and shows like that do not have much more to offer than bickering over relationships. Star Trek has relationship stuff too but that's not the focus, there's so much more.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I meant that soap operas and shows like that do not have much more to offer than bickering over relationships. Star Trek has relationship stuff too but that's not the focus, there's so much more.

Not in my experience. They do crime plots, medicine and even science fiction.

 

[JesterFace]

Not in my experience. They do crime plots, medicine and even science fiction.

This means that either I haven't watched enough soap operas or you have watched too much of them.

 

[1001001]

And how many times has Star Trek done the “long lost brother” thing?

 

[ChallengerHK]

And how many times has Star Trek done the “long lost brother” thing?

Data alone did it twice. Four times if you count Mom and Pop. Six times if you count Dodj and Soji. He might have the largest family seen in the Trek universe.

 

[1001001]

Data alone did it twice. Four times if you count Mom and Pop. Six times if you count Dodj and Soji. He might have the largest family seen in the Trek universe.

Spock. Worf. Tasha.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Spock. Worf. Tasha.

Spock's not a fair choice. He has an unlimited sibling supply.