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It's irritates me when people say the Enterprise D was taken out buy a 70 yr old Bird Of Prey

I'm sorry, but why would satifying the writers be even a small concern? They're not the customer.
Well it's more about realising that writers have an agenda and their end result is to satisfy themselves along with the fans. Ron and Brannon had choices about the way they chose to write the film and have the big E go out, the same with how they wrote Kirk's death. I may think it's rushed and messy but that's down to the timetable and list of ideas not that these guys or the others making it weren't trying their best.
 
Well it's more about realising that writers have an agenda and their end result is to satisfy themselves along with the fans. Ron and Brannon had choices about the way they chose to write the film and have the big E go out, the same with how they wrote Kirk's death. I may think it's rushed and messy but that's down to the timetable and list of ideas not that these guys or the others making it weren't trying their best.

It both just kind of happened in the laziest, most unspectacular of ways. I don't care if stuff like that happens in real life, I'm watching a movie/tv show so I want climactic conclusions to things and dramatic, heroic last stands, not the duras Sisters (who themselves were kinda wasted in the movie) and a bridge.
 
How would you have felt, had that actually been "our" Enterprise-D, rather than it going down the way it did in Generations? (Of course, we'll have to assume it happened slightly later, short after the conclusion of TNG in that case). Perhaps with a line that explained that fortunately, most of the crew got into the escape pods and through the wormhole in time, or some such thing, to explain how they could reappear in the next movie?

I don't know how these things work exactly in the writer's guild, but in my line of work there's this small thing called "job satisfaction". (And to me, one of the key ingredients in sufficient job satisfaction is that within a clearly established goal, my employer gives me enough freedom to do what I think is best , and then use that freedom in order to create the best possible product for my employer within the time and resources allotted, one which I am convinced is high quality myself).

Low job satisfaction usually results in a high employer turnover rate, which isn't good for the company, especially not if it concerns positions that aren't that easy to fill (which I would assume would be true for experienced writers for TV shows).

And even if you find decent substitutions, they'd probably still have different ideas of where to take the show next, not quite meshing with how the show originally was set up, which in turn probably isn't good for the continuity of the show, even if the refreshment itself was needed, etc.

It certainly would have been ballsy to blow up the E-D on DS9, and regardless of anything else I might have felt (more on that in a bit) I would have given them points for that. I have some trouble believing the Jem'hadar would have let Our Heroes escape, but perhaps the runabouts could have beamed off Our Heroes before the ship was entirely destroyed...though that... I'm not sure there's a satisfying way to do that, unless you want to argue that the Main Bridge had always been designed with the potential to be self-sustaining and it got "blown off" the rest of the ship.

I would imagine TNG fans wouldn't have been at all pleased, and assuming there was animosity between TNG and DS9 fans (can't we all just get along?), I imagine this would have worsened it significantly.

Of course, originally they were going to destroy Defiant in FC, and I'm deeply glad ISB refused to let them do so, though it seems rather convenient that the ship survives in time to be ready for the next episode of DS9 (though, how soon after FC does the Defiant show up again?).
 
(though, how soon after FC does the Defiant show up again?)

The last episode before the movie appears to be about a month earlier in Children of Time, it sits out Empok Nor and Blaze of Glory, and next appears operational in Call to Arms about a month after the events of First Contact.

At least based on the typical assumption of stardate calculators (which are probably fairly accurate in relation to each other if not necessarily the calender as a whole).
 
It's been a while since I've seen any of the Star Trek films, but the Enterprise in the TOS movies didn't re-use any of the sets formt he TV show, so imho they could have simply given the Enterprise D a refit along those lines.
They had a good excuse as to why Starfleet would be doing that; to make the ship more effective against the Borg menace the Federation was dealing with.
Yes, I was actually talking about that upthread. But it would still almost seem like a new ship even though it wasn't technically new, kind of like how the original Enterprise in films seemed new even though it was only a refit.
 
I suppose a month to get the ship operational again may be reasonable?

The travel time from Earth to DS9 is vaguely implied to be days if not weeks. Shrug.

(then again, would it have been able to rush its way to Earth's defense in the first place?)
 
70 year old Bird of Prey taking out the Galaxy Class Enterprise D is just as ridiculous as in Batman(1989) Joker's revolver taking out Batman's Batwing. :censored:
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I guess what people have a problem with is, Riker just shooting back once instead of unleashing everything.
I agree the Klingons got lucky.
It shows not even ships named Enterprise are save from freak bad luck sometimes.
Well, to be fair...the last time Riker tried that against some Ferengi owned BoP's - the ship was boarded and taken over by 3 Ferengi; and it's 1000 crewmembers sent to dig at the Ferengi owned mines (supposedly by the same 3 Ferengi...(See TNG S6 - "Rascals") ;)
 
There was ineptness in the battle on both sides.

The Duras sisters fire a couple of torpedoes at the Ent-D near its warp core and fail to destroy it instantly. A vessel that had a warp core breach when another vessel simply scraped the Ent-D’s warps nacelles when caught in a time loop.

Then Riker fails to give an order to return fire immediately before consulting with Worf. And you can’t fault Worf for not automatically firing back anyways despite knowing its flaws, since Riker is the commanding officer.

You could say that Riker and the rest of the crew was complacent with the shields up, hence why they were so taken off guard. But the order to return fire could have still been given, which might have been enough on its own to destroy the BoP.
 
To be fair, the damage suffered in C&E was a bit more than a "scrape" to the starboard nacelle, and the ship's systems were already compromised at that point. For all we know if the ship was fully functional at the time of the impact it would have been able to eject the core.

But yes, the second the BoP started firing on the E-D the latter should have launched a spread of torpedoes and phaser fire at the BoP and called it a day. Hell, I'd argue they should have done that in retaliation for the mere fact of the Sisters having opened fire, regardless of whether it penetrated the E-D's shields. The Sisters were rogues anway; Gowron probably would have thanked Riker for cleaning up the mess.

Which is why if I'd been on the BoP I would have recommended taking out the E-D's weapons systems first.
 
And it ended up leaking real time video stream of what Geordi was seeing to the Dura's sisters.

That little trick is what brought down the Enterprise.

After fighting the Borg, I'm surprised they don't have Shield Frequencies on automatic random modulation.
Presumably, changing frequencies is less efficient than sticking with one (otherwise it would be standard), so the random rotation is only activated when needed.
 
Presumably, changing frequencies is less efficient than sticking with one (otherwise it would be standard), so the random rotation is only activated when needed.
It probably is, but given what happened here with the Klingon weapons penetrating via Spyware, I think wasting that bit of power is worth it.

End Result = Losing the Galaxy Class

or

Waste Some Power for better Shield Security, even if you have Malware leaking your Shield Frequency.
 
I liked "Day of Honor" for not only showing the core being ejected from beneath the ship but then showing Engineering with it missing (I'm still a little curious as to what was involved in making that happen). The only thing missing was a shot of Engineering with the core falling through it.

OTOH, the idea that the core could simply be plugged back in afterward seemed a bit of a stretch.

Maybe for the Intrepid class things were easier.

For the Galaxy class, according the TNG Technical Manual, re-installing a warp core could only be done at a facility such as a Starbase (not only was the core ejected but so were the anti-matter pods).
 
As for Riker unleashing a volley of torpedoes when he first realized the harmless BoP was in fact a deadly threat...

...Well, that one is specifically preempted in technobabble: you can't fire torpedoes at close ranges. So firing a single phaser beam is the one and only prudent approach, as long as you keep on firing that single phaser beam. And it appears Riker did: the ship is heard firing, even if none of the exterior shots happen to be timed so that we would see a beam being fired.

Klingon torpedoes don't seem to be a danger to the firing ship at close ranges - the greenish-bluish ones usually fired by BoPs, that is. Since the BoP is the U-boat of Star Trek, we might do well to decide that the BoP torpedo is optimized for commerce raiding, and can both destroy and disable merchant vessels but isn't particularly good at hurting big warships. So BoPs fight warships with their disruptors - except when they wish to use a dirty trick that only works on torpedoes.

Which I guess is a weakness of ST:GEN. Why does Soran "tune" a torpedo rather than a death ray? How can he even do that? Wouldn't it have been logical for TPTB to show him do the intuitive thing and tune the death rays, and for the Sisters to then fire those at Riker?

Timo Saloniemi
 
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