STAR TREK VI (FILTERED)

[STEPhon IT]

I wonder what the Prime version of her father was doing around this time? Could he have been involved in TUC conspiracies?

Probably not, since this person was never referenced in TWOK for Carol Marcus' work on Genesis or her becoming a scientist. Seems like the story begins with Kirk and Carol and later David and the conflict between them and thankfully resolved in that movie. Maybe fireproof78 has something more to add on this person.

 

[fireproof78]

I wonder what the Prime version of her father was doing around this time? Could he have been involved in TUC conspiracies?

I honestly think that Prime Admiral Marcus was good friends with both Robert April and Pike. Because of their more exploratory pursuits it helped temper Marcus' protectionist leanings. By the time of of the films Marcus is probably retired, allowing others like Morrow, Bennett and Cartright deal with it.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Azetbur's role is quite interesting where she could be this powerful, she could take the power in her own hands as chancellor but she had to do it in a trade off in becoming unpopular to her world. It could stressed throughout her reign as a trade off, she has these virtues, the tricky thing is for power. I was never a fan of the cartoon character of a Chancellor from TNG, and I'm surprised Gowron lasted that long, but for what it was it was okay.

The bar for me was set really high when Kor was introduced in Errand of Mercy; he presented himself as a ruthless, highly intelligent adversary. If Klingons were being ruled by leaders like Kor, then Gorkon must've been that way for a time and had to change his stance. For Azetbur, as Chancellor, the only way to reclaim her power is to be that tyrant in the eyes of Klingons in order to enforce change. Her reign might have been a rough road.

 

[Pauln6]

Azetbur's role is quite interesting where she could be this powerful, she could take the power in her own hands as chancellor but she had to do it in a trade off in becoming unpopular to her world. It could stressed throughout her reign as a trade off, she has these virtues, the tricky thing is for power. I was never a fan of the cartoon character of a Chancellor from TNG, and I'm surprised Gowron lasted that long, but for what it was it was okay.

The bar for me was set really high when Kor was introduced in Errand of Mercy; he presented himself as a ruthless, highly intelligent adversary. If Klingons were being ruled by leaders like Kor, then Gorkon must've been that way for a time and had to change his stance. For Azetbur, as Chancellor, the only way to reclaim her power is to be that tyrant in the eyes of Klingons in order to enforce change. Her reign might have been a rough road.

Since women cannot normally sit on the council, she must have been acting as a proxy for her late father because the various houses could not agree on a replacement due to in fighting. Banning women was likely a reaction to events in Discovery but it's possible that the ban came as a result of Azetbur brokering unpopular peace? Either way, I think she was willing to be a scapegoat to fulfill her father's legacy and to give those opposed to peace while understanding it was necessary, a way to save face.

 

[NCC-73515]

Perhaps Chancellor Mommy led to a ban on women except heirs to a dead chancellor, and Azetbur led to a general ban regardless of family ties
Or they were allowed until K'ehleyr rejected Gowron's bribe, and were banned in response cause K'ehleyr was seen as a pro-Fed threat XD

 

[Orphalesion]

Perhaps Chancellor Mommy led to a ban on women except heirs to a dead chancellor, and Azetbur led to a general ban regardless of family ties

Which is exactly what I suggested on page one That she was making so many changes and brokered the peace with the Federation (which would have been unpopular among many warriors) that she made herself unpopular with certain powers in the empire and they afterwards passed a law banning women from politics.

 

[Pauln6]

Which is exactly what I suggested on page one That she was making so many changes and brokered the peace with the Federation (which would have been unpopular among many warriors) that she made herself unpopular with certain powers in the empire and they afterwards passed a law banning women from politics.

L' Rell's machinations in Discovery are also worthy of a ban mind you but, since nobody prior to TNG mentions the ban, Azetbur is firmly in the frame.

 

[fireproof78]

L' Rell's machinations in Discovery are also worthy of a ban mind you but, since nobody prior to TNG mentions the ban, Azetbur is firmly in the frame.

I mean, given how long Klingons live those two reigns would be close enough together that it simply would be regarded as completely against the interests of the Empire as two recent female chancellors.

 

[STEPhon IT]

It's hard for me to accept stances which happened retroactively so whatever's done in DISCO is just that. We didn't see enough Klingon women in TOS to make a judgement they didn't have a higher role, and when watching Star Trek VI I didn't see any of the Klingons criticizing Azetbur's role as the new Chancellor and mentioning all these retcon things that women were not allowed from DISCO. Take away the re-imagining DISCO, a so-called prequel, did based from what was done on TNG, Azetbur had a role in what was to come for the future. If those retroactive rules were true than she would not have been considered as Chancellor.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think Disco ever said women were not allowed. I think that occurred in TNG.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I understand that, but a member mentioned it was likely from events from DISCO which I can not accept.

 

[fireproof78]

I think its a combination of factors and just being fleshed out. I certainly think Azetbur's rule had something to do with it.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Oh absolutely I credit Orphalesion solely for that contribution and his theory parallels Catherine the Great, there's not a doubt in my mind there were still forces who would resist change and Azetbur had to cut these people from the knees. Her actions definitely were a reflection for things to come.

 

[STEPhon IT]

One of the appreciations of Star Trek VI was it captured the genre of the political thriller from the likes of Tom Clancy and John Grisham which were popular in the 90's. After it's run and success the movie proved a writer and producer can do anything with Star Trek, the franchise is capable to cross into other genres and still keeps it's identity.