Rand's Rank

[ChallengerHK]

the timeline for her getting to the rank of commander may be more problematic than just her being commissioned.

That's my issue, yes. I can easily see her being a non-com, then working her way up to being an officer. I find it odd that she'd be a non-com for 15 or so years and then become an officer. Not impossible, to be sure, but it just stands out as weird.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Did we establish similar relevant information for O'Brien during TNG? Was he CPO Obrien, Transporter Chief O'Brien, or both?

Related question. Is there anyone who's referred to as "Chief" in TOS who is unambiguously a Chief of "something," as opposed to it being used as a rank?

 

[Henoch]

CHEF [OC]: Captain Kirk from ship's Galley.
KIRK: Kirk here.
CHEF [OC]: Sir, I put meat loaf in the ovens. There's turkeys in there now. Real turkeys.
KIRK: Chief, have you been

Apparently, the ship's Chef is a Chief.

Also, there were a lot of transporter chiefs, but that may not be a rank but an adventure, I mean a job.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Apparently, the ship's Chef is a Chief.

Aside from being alliteratively amusing, also good data. We still don't know, however, if he's "Chief of the Mess" or another CPO.

 

[J.T.B.]

That's my issue, yes. I can easily see her being a non-com, then working her way up to being an officer. I find it odd that she'd be a non-com for 15 or so years and then become an officer. Not impossible, to be sure, but it just stands out as weird.

In the USN, one had to have 12 years minimum and 24 max enlisted service to be considered for promotion to warrant officer, so they thought someone could contribute as an officer even on the downhill side of a career.

Once my dad was giving me advice on dealing with officers and especially young ensigns. "If you see an ensign with gray hair, though," he said, "you listen to them!"

 

[Phaser Two]

Henoch and J.T.B. have this right. Yeoman is the rating (occupational specialty) and rate or pay grade is the enlisted version of rank. We know her rating but not her rate; however, given that she worked directly with the ship's CO, she was probably a Yeoman First Class (E-6) or a Chief Yeoman (E-7).

 

[J.T.B.]

Henoch and J.T.B. have this right. Yeoman is the rating (occupational specialty) and rate or pay grade is the enlisted version of rank. We know her rating but not her rate; however, given that she worked directly with the ship's CO, she was probably a Yeoman First Class (E-6) or a Chief Yeoman (E-7).

First class seems right. "Captain's writer" on a big ship would be an experienced yeoman, but not the most senior, who would be more of a general supervisor of the ship's office.

 

[ChallengerHK]

she was probably a Yeoman First Class (E-6) or a Chief Yeoman (E-7).

In the context of the modern USN? And basically, we're saying no conclusive data one way or another within the show inself?

 

[Henoch]

We don't know exactly Yeoman Rand's age and time in service. At a maximum, assuming she joined at age 18 and is really 36 years old (Whitney's real age), she could have up to 18 years service. At a minimum, I would say she could be a little younger like 31 years old and could have joined later like at age 21, so she probably has 10 years service time. By TMP, she could have 15 years to over 20 years service. Also, there is no guarantee that she entered Starfleet as a Yeoman Third Class, rather she could have started as a E-1 to E-3 for the time-in-grade calculations.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Are any other yeomen referred to by rank? Colt? Barrows?...

 

[Henoch]

Are any other yeomen referred to by rank? Colt? Barrows?...

Nope. Just "Yeoman <insert name here>".

 

[Timo]

Are any other yeomen referred to by rank? Colt? Barrows?...

None AFAIK.

In the TOS movies, people have more or less unambiguous rank markers, but we never get dialogue confirmation that the character in apparent Lieutenant tunic who hands over a PADD to Kirk in ST5 would be a "Yeoman", say. Conversely, we do get Yeomen Burke and Samno, but neither wears a rank marker of any sort on their jumpsuits.

The idea that Rand would eventually hold Commander rank is not particularly problematic IMHO. After all, this rank comes from a dream sequence, and we saw the non-dream version of the very same events where she wore the Junior Lieutenant pin. Two conflicting pieces of information, an obvious explanation for the conflict, and no ambiguity about which one is the winner...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Phaser Two]

Are any other yeomen referred to by rank? Colt? Barrows?...

As noted above, Tina Lawton was a yeoman, third class (E-4). It makes sense that Starfleet used USN conventions for enlisted personnel as it did so for officers, and finally for O'Brien in DS9. Loved his insignia.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Or she was a hard working enlisted, as opposed to a officer who sat around all day? During TOS she does seem to run around the ship doing various tasks.

She does joke in "Flashback" that it took her two years to make Ensign, so the second Rand could've gotten there earlier.

 

[ChallengerHK]

As noted above, Tina Lawton was a yeoman, third class (E-4). It makes sense that Starfleet used USN conventions for enlisted personnel as it did so for officers.

It does make sense, and they do, except when they don't

 

[ChallengerHK]

She does joke in "Flashback" that it took her two years to make Ensign

That would seem to be pretty unambiguous evidence that she's not an officer in TOS.

 

[Henoch]

The idea that Rand would eventually hold Commander rank is not particularly problematic IMHO. After all, this rank comes from a dream sequence, and we saw the non-dream version of the very same events where she wore the Junior Lieutenant pin. Two conflicting pieces of information, an obvious explanation for the conflict, and no ambiguity about which one is the winner...

@Timo has the best solution. I think Ensign Tuvok was so intimidated/impressed by Rand, that he subconsciously inflated her rank in his dream. Dreams are so unreliable.

 

[ChallengerHK]

As I've said elsewhere, I'm always impressed by Timo's reasoning AND memory. Long ago I had near total recall of TOS. He appears to have total recall of the Trek-verse .

 

[valkyrie013]

Would love for some Cannon rank exposition to explain enlisted ranks... owell
Rand may have gone to the academy after making Chief, seeing that she wanted a different job, or maybe command track, etc. Maybe the 2 years joke was she was in an abrviated academy stint of 2 years ( associates degree) before she made ensign, and since she isn't dead, she made it to LT jg before Ensign Kim..

 

[BillJ]

Would love for some Cannon rank exposition to explain enlisted ranks... owell

Why? Imagination ends up much more satisfying.