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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

You're still refusing to acknowledge the fact that it ran for 8 fucking years,

Calm down, JD. Once again, by posting "ran for 8 years", that is an attempt to make it appear as if the Super Friends consistently ran for 8 successful years, which is rewriting history, thus your statement is patently false. The SF was cancelled in 1974, as it was a failure with audiences and did not return until another three years and most importantly, NOT based on its own merits, but the popularity of two, unrelated live-action TV series. in other words, if not for the success / interest in other properties, the Super Friends would have been a one season wonder of the early 1970s. Next, it was cancelled again in 1983 and needed a reboot to try to shed the image of the silly series it was considered to be. That is not consistent or a success. A series that is consistent and a success is one that runs from start to finish and is not cancelled two times along the way, such as The Flintstones (ABC, 1960-66), The Beverly Hillbillies (CBS, 1962-71), The Cosby Show (NBC, 1984-92), or NYPD Blue (ABC, 1993-05). The Super Friends does not fall into that category at all.

Something doesn't have to be good to be a classic. Plan 9 From Outer Space is considered one of the worst movies of all time, and it is definitely a classic.

Wrong. Plan 9 from Outer Space is only acknowledged thanks to it having the one-two punch of being almost universally judged to be the worst film ever made, directed by almost inarguably the worst filmmaker in history. Infamy does not make something a classic, a term usually attached to a work of high regard/great quality. Needless to say, the films of Ed Wood do not meet either standard of judgement. Just the opposite.

I make a point of saying it is impossible for directors to only be able do a certain kind of movies, or that they could never do a certain type of movie.
Just look at somebody like Steven Speilberg, who has directed Jaws, E.T., The Color Purple, Shindler's List, Raiders of the Lost Arc, The Terminal, and is now working on West Side Story.

...and was unfit to direct a comedy such as the heavily criticized 1941. Coppola failed with One from the Heart. Ang Lee was out of his element on Hulk. I can cite pages of directors from the earliest days of the business up to recent times--Whedon on Justice League being a textbook example--when certain talents were not fit for, and did not understand the content of certain projects.


Yes, that was how I felt. I can't believe you actually think you can tell me how I felt.

Much in the way you are selling the alleged feelings of phantom people who want to see a return to George Reeves, the Super Friends, Donner's version, etc., when there is no evidence to support any such notion.

He was a better fit for the characters and content than Snyder was.

Bull. It is clear you are so "MCU-ed" in your thinking that you believe the approach of Whedon's Avengers movies made him a fit for JL. The real world results shatter your opinion. The JL (or all of the DCEU) was never going to establish its own voice by grafting the tonally wrong MCU to its body; the very reason there is so much widespread, excitement / interest in seeing Snyder's original vision finally carried out, as he shaped a strong DCEU by not sharing the tone and approach of the MCU.

The DCEU might not be niche, but the Snyder Cut is.

You cannot separate Snyder's JL from the franchise he shaped. The JL as a film concept was initially launched as a natural continuation of what was established in other DCEU films--which is what fans around the world realize and want to see--for the version that should have been produced, instead of Whedon's disaster.

.
But it was still there.

Minimal presence at best, and certainly was no takeaway like the gritty superhero film WW was, as opposed to the quip-spatterd worst of the MCU, where jokes are fired off at the most inappropriate times.

I've seen a lot more people wanting a return to the older versions of the character than I have who want more of the Snyder version.

Where? Point to any large body of Superman fandom wanting a return to George Reeves, the Super Friends or Donner--again I remind you the latter approach had fans unenthusiastic about it as they learned Superman Returns was set in that universe, and sure enough, it was a major disappointment, as that version--its tone, content and approach was not the Superman modern audiences wanted to see. Their rejection of SR flies in the face of everything you're saying.

The interest in seeing superheroes in relatable, realistic settings is very appealing to audiences, not winking camp counselors in a saccharine-imbibed world not at all similar to the one they live in.

Oh, and I would love to see a return to the Dozier style of Batman, and the fact that Batman: Brave and the Bold, and the Harley Quinn animated series have both been successful are proof that there are plenty of people out there who are very open to a comedic version of Batman and his associated characters.

BBATB was a stylized cartoon that could only work within its narrow animated, semi-comedic confines, which means nothing to how a live action production would be approached. No movie producer would ever try to make a modern day Batman movie in that manner, and certainly not the Dozier way. The last time a live action Bat-film went in that direction, the world ended up with the Schumacher Bat-films, which were derided crap-fests for a universe of justified reasons and killed that 1st Bat-series. In other words, no one wants to see the return of Bat-Dozier in a live action Batman film.
 
Some new info on Zack Snyder's Justice League:

- it's longer than 214 minutes
- no Whedon directed reshoots footage will be in this cut
- official title, teaser and confirmation on will it air as a movie or a series will be announced at the DC FanDome event in August
 
- no Whedon directed reshoots footage will be in this cut
I had hoped this would be the case. Not because I love Snyder's take on the DCU, but if we're getting an alternate version, I want it to be as alternate as possible. (Plus, most of the reshoot stuff stands out like dog's balls.)
 
- no Whedon directed reshoots footage will be in this cut

I would've thought that went without saying. The only reason they used some Richard Lester footage in the "Donner Cut" of Superman II was because Richard Donner only shot something like 70% of the film and thus there was no Donner-shot equivalent for certain key sequences. But here, as I understand it, Snyder fully completed principal photography before WB decided to bring in Whedon to write (and eventually direct) the reshoots.
 
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There's been a lot of rumbling about Keanu and Constantine lately. This is a nice interview and I like just how involved Keanu seems to be in the movie making process, not just taking a paycheck to show up and act.

My favorite bit, Constantine was Rated R for "tone"
 
A dark haired American Keanu Reeves was an awful casting choice to me in almost every aspect, especially with him being such a limited actor as well (though, admittedly, an amazing human being and good enough for certain roles that don't require much range)
 
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Do we have a thread for the animated films? Oh, what the hell...

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Okay, that is a weird one.
 
Do we have a thread for the animated films? Oh, what the hell...

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Okay, that is a weird one.

Interesting. It has the same voice cast as Batman: Under the Red Hood from a decade ago, which was about Jason Todd's return from the "dead" and featured the events of A Death in the Family as a prologue. And it has the same director, Brandon Vietti. So is it in the same continuity (if that means anything with the alternate-paths gimmick)?
 
I've never gotten around to checking out any of the interactive stuff that has been coming from Netflix, but this one has me curious enough to possibly give it a try.
 
Interesting. It has the same voice cast as Batman: Under the Red Hood from a decade ago, which was about Jason Todd's return from the "dead" and featured the events of A Death in the Family as a prologue. And it has the same director, Brandon Vietti. So is it in the same continuity (if that means anything with the alternate-paths gimmick)?
I think some of the scenes were taken right out of "Under the Red Hood", so I'd say probably yes.
 
I think some of the scenes were taken right out of "Under the Red Hood", so I'd say probably yes.
Close to 50% of the footage in the trailer comes directly from Under the Red Hood. They have also animated alternate versions of shots from UtRH (bazooka-firing Red Robin gesturing to Black Mask instead of Red Hood doing it), so looks like we'll be revisting certain scenes from UtRH after we kill or save Jason. I predict a lot of money will be saved by re-used animation.

Five fascinating tales from the iconic DC canon, including the first interactive film presentation in Warner Bros. Home Entertainment history, come to animated life in DC Showcase - Batman: Death in the Family.
So it's a collection of shorts. I wonder what the other four will be.
 
So it's a collection of shorts. I wonder what the other four will be.

I'm guessing it'll be like the first DC Showcase DVD, which combined a new Superman/Shazam short with three shorts previously released as bonus features on other DVDs. There have been five other shorts to date -- Catwoman, Sgt. Rock, Death, The Phantom Stranger, and Adam Strange. But Catwoman was from 2011 and the other four all came out within the past year or so, so I figure it'll be those four.
 
I don't know anything about the Constantine comics, so the differences in Keanu Reeves' depiction don't bother me. Mostly, I just really enjoyed his Constantine movie and I've always wanted a sequel to it. Maybe we can finally get one now that Reeves' is so much more bankable after John Wick.

I don't think it's mutually exclusive, I think Superman can raise us up from a "realistic" world. Maybe we're getting our terms crossed, like I think you can have a Superman who is a sheep among wolves or who is there to raise us from the muck as it was put but still within a convincing backdrop.

I don't think presenting a credible world means Superman can only be some dour asshole. Given the state of things I'd love to see a figure who purposely fights not to just stop criminals but for the justice that so often seems missing, a shining beacon of hope in the darkness. I think there's a lot of room between Snyder and Superfriends and while I've enjoyed both to different degrees I don't think those are the only options for the character.

I agree. I also think that it's a VERY hard needle to thread. Upon further rewatches, I'm actually pretty impressed with how Henry Cavil balances between being an exceptionally noble, virtuous man but also a man, not some perfect god. And the notion of putting that brand of Superman into a dark, cynical world is a very interesting choice. My issue with Man of Steel & Batman v. Superman is that the omniscient narrative perspective of the filmmakers seems to side a bit more with that fallen world than it does with Superman. They seem overly suspicious, like they don't really believe that someone as powerful as Superman could also be that altruistic. And if you're not going to BELIEVE in Superman, why bother making a Superman movie?

But then, nearly every Batman movie since The Dark Knight has at least briefly raised the question of whether Batman does more harm than good merely by existing. So neither of the World's Finest come away looking as shiny as they did 20 years ago.

I've never heard anyone claim Aquaman, with his characterization/template the same as it was in JL/DCEU, respectively, felt like a MCU film.

I'm saying it right now. And I could have sworn that I said it before in this same thread eons ago. (And if I didn't, I meant to. ;) ) Say we set up a light-to-dark scale from 0 to 10, with 0 being light, quippy Marvel movies like Ant-Man & Thor: Ragnarok and 10 being the grimdark DC extreme of Batman v. Superman. I would give Aquaman a 3.8. It's not the lightest thing ever but it's certainly closer to the Marvel half of the spectrum.

No. You can like Whedon and his Avengers work all you want, but he--and his influence / style--was the fact remains that he was wrong choice for a Justice League film, and the end result stands as a testament to that fact.

I think that, had Whedon been given free reign to write & direct a Justice League movie from scratch, I think that we would have ended up with something much more entertaining than the theatrical cut that we got. It still would have been a complete tonal mismatch with what Snyder had already set-up with Man of Steel & Batman v. Superman. While I love Whedon and have a far more mixed reaction to Snyder's filmography, I think that Snyder's Justice League will end up being far more interesting than anything that Whedon could have come up with. I don't think that the Snyder cut is some hidden masterpiece. But, as flawed as it is, I would like to see his vision brought to fruition. And, between the black suit, Darkseid, possibly Martian Manhunter, & some other stuff, it sounds pretty cool!

Point to any large body of Superman fandom wanting a return to George Reeves, the Super Friends or Donner--again I remind you the latter approach had fans unenthusiastic about it as they learned Superman Returns was set in that universe, and sure enough, it was a major disappointment, as that version--its tone, content and approach was not the Superman modern audiences wanted to see. Their rejection of SR flies in the face of everything you're saying.

While Superman Returns has its problems, its depiction of Superman isn't one of them. It's more to do with the world around him, which not only wasn't updated to the modern era but in fact seemed to regress. While Donner's Metropolis felt like a kid-friendly take on All the President's Men, Singer's was more like a sepia-filtered Art Deco style designed to evoke faded newspapers from the 1930s.
Also, the climax involved throwing a giant rock into space.:rolleyes:
Also, Jason Lane! Did anyone really want to see that story thread continue?
It's a shame because, while that version of Superman is great, the movie that he's in has its head well up its own ass! (Still better than X-Men: Apocalypse though.)
 
Upon further rewatches, I'm actually pretty impressed with how Henry Cavil balances between being an exceptionally noble, virtuous man but also a man, not some perfect god.

My issues with MoS were never about Cavill. I thought he was the best Superman I'd seen onscreen since Christopher Reeve; it's just that the movie didn't really let him be Superman enough. The character and the actor transcended the story they were saddled with.


And the notion of putting that brand of Superman into a dark, cynical world is a very interesting choice.

Particularly the cynical reinterpretation of Jonathan. It felt like an Elseworlds story, showing an alternate path where Clark still becomes Superman in spite of Jonathan's influence rather than because of it.


My issue with Man of Steel & Batman v. Superman is that the omniscient narrative perspective of the filmmakers seems to side a bit more with that fallen world than it does with Superman. They seem overly suspicious, like they don't really believe that someone as powerful as Superman could also be that altruistic. And if you're not going to BELIEVE in Superman, why bother making a Superman movie?

That's a good way of putting it. Both movies hamstrung him, arbitrarily kept him from doing good he should have been able to do. MoS did it in a ridiculously blatant way, by sending him to literally the opposite side of the planet from the disaster going on in Metropolis.


But then, nearly every Batman movie since The Dark Knight has at least briefly raised the question of whether Batman does more harm than good merely by existing. So neither of the World's Finest come away looking as shiny as they did 20 years ago.

I think TDK took a more balanced view than that. BB & TDK between them tell the story of how Batman was needed as a symbol to bring hope back to a hopeless city and inspire the people of Gotham to restore their faith in law and justice, but that once stability had been restored, it was time for Batman to step aside in favor of a more conventional hero. Batman helped Gotham heal and stand back up, but then it had to carry forward on its own two feet. So those films absolutely were not saying that Batman's very existence was intrinsically harmful. They were saying that his extraordinary methods were beneficial in extraordinary need, but were not a replacement for the way the system is supposed to work.

Unfortunately, TDKR undermined that by saying that the city's reform had been tainted by the lies surrounding Harvey Dent, and it basically undid all the progress made in TDK for the sake of reverting back to the conflict of the first film.


I think that, had Whedon been given free reign to write & direct a Justice League movie from scratch, I think that we would have ended up with something much more entertaining than the theatrical cut that we got. It still would have been a complete tonal mismatch with what Snyder had already set-up with Man of Steel & Batman v. Superman.

I agree, but since I hated Snyder's tone, I'd be fine with that. That's what I like about JL as it exists, the overwriting of Snyder's pretentious darkness with something truer to the spirit of the Justice League. It's the Snyderish parts that remain that I'm not fond of.
 
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