Spoilers New Picard TV Series and Litverse Continuity (may contain TV show spoilers)

[The Wormhole]

I have yet to see Picard (have to wait for the eventual Blu-Ray) but just a question. Was anything from the novels mentioned in the show, any kind of Easter eggs or anything?

Not the actual litverse itself. There is a minor reference to David Goodman's Picard Autobiography with Picard talking about starting his career as night shift science officer on the Reliant. Though the fact that Picard served on the Reliant early in his career actually comes from the Blu-ray extended cut of The Measure of a Man, the fact he was night shift science officer is from the Autobiography. Can't go into much details because of spoilers, but a plot development in the finale is very similar to a Myriad Universes story.

Also, I'm curious. Say they incorporated something, like a character. Say someone on the show really liked the character of Lt. Chen and decided they were going to incorporate that character into the show (not just the name but the background of the character as well--all in). I believe Christopher first created the character way back in "Greater Than the Sum" I think it was. Would the showrunners owe anything to Christopher at all in that case? I know the authors are basically writing with a license from CBS and whatever other PTBs that are involved. But does anything go back to an author in a case like that.

Would he even get something as simple as "Lt. Chen character created by Christopher Bennett" or something akin to that? I'm just curious.

No. If anyone on the show wanted to use Lt. Chen, they could and wouldn't owe Christopher a cent. CBS owns Star Trek, they can use a character from a Trek novel as they see fit. You'll note that TOS-R used the Vanguard design in The Ultimate Computer without giving credit or payment to the artist who created it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The old novelverse not only still exists, it can even continue.

Spoiler: I don't know if this actually is a story idea but just to appease the damn lawyers I'll put this in spoilercode

PIC obviously makes it necessary for a new novelverse to be created, but the old one can exist alongside it. Just another parallel universe. And we've seen characters cross universes on many occasions...

 

[David Weller]

as far as I know, in British TV (i.e. Doctor Who) it's not unusual to find that happens, but I don't think it does in America. In America, everything you do belongs to the owners of the show.

I know that this is true.

For most characters created by a freelancer, the copyright to that character remains with the writer. With many of the novels and audios, you will see ‘....created by.:...: and used under license’.

The reason Big Finish can do Blake’s 7 and Survivors is that they’ve done a deal with the Estate of Terry Nation not the BBC.

 

[JD]

A few of the writers from the classic Doctor Who went to use their creations in non-DW direct to video movies. I know there were ones with the Autons, and Sontarans.

 

[Relayer1]

So, any news on the recon/fix/finale/reboot/crossover novel(s) ?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So, any news on the recon/fix/finale/reboot/crossover novel(s) ?

AFAIK, there won't be one.

The old novelverse will simply not be written about anymore. They're not going to destroy it (in-universe) or anything like that.

So no Crisis on Infinite Treks.

 

[JD]

The way the authors have been talking, it sounds like there is more to whatever they have in mind than just stopping writing the Novelverse books. Even if they do stop, we have still got at least one more on the way, since David Mack has said he's working on a book with Data and Lal.

 

[Relayer1]

AFAIK, there won't be one.

The old novelverse will simply not be written about anymore. They're not going to destroy it (in-universe) or anything like that.

So no Crisis on Infinite Treks.

Shame.

So nearly at the Romulan supernova time travel JJverse split too.

 

[The Wormhole]

A few of the writers from the classic Doctor Who went to use their creations in non-DW direct to video movies. I know there were ones with the Autons, and Sontarans.

There's also the Lethbridge-Stewart novel series, a series of novels focused on the Brigadier's pre-UNIT days done with the consent of his creators which BBC is not involved with at all.

So, any news on the recon/fix/finale/reboot/crossover novel(s) ?

David Mack said last week that S&S are not moving forward with anything connected to the Litverse at all after the next Voyager novel is released.

 

[David Mack]

David Mack said last week that S&S are not moving forward with anything connected to the Litverse at all after the next Voyager novel is released.

I said nothing had been announced, and that no decisions had been made. Not the same thing.

Stay tuned, folks.

 

[The Wormhole]

My apologies. I misunderstood.

 

[Damian]

So if, say, President Bacco shows up in Picard, nobody would owe me a damn thing.

Which is fine. We knew this going in. It's spelled out in the contract(s) we signed.

In America, everything you do belongs to the owners of the show.

No. If anyone on the show wanted to use Lt. Chen, they could and wouldn't owe Christopher a cent. CBS owns Star Trek, they can use a character from a Trek novel as they see fit. You'll note that TOS-R used the Vanguard design in The Ultimate Computer without giving credit or payment to the artist who created it.

I sort of suspected that. I just wasn't sure if that applied if they used something from a novel lock, stock and barrel.

I guess if nothing else, though, if a show did do something like that I imagine the 'creator' of that character would feel a bit of pride that the show-runners though enough of said character to put it in the show (though I'm sure they'd love a nice check to go with that ). But still, I guess as KRAD noted, it's no secret. There's no expectation of any reward.

The old novelverse not only still exists, it can even continue.

Spoiler: I don't know if this actually is a story idea but just to appease the damn lawyers I'll put this in spoilercode

PIC obviously makes it necessary for a new novelverse to be created, but the old one can exist alongside it. Just another parallel universe. And we've seen characters cross universes on many occasions...

Nah--I think you're safe there. I think a lot have said that very thing about the relaunch litverse.

I said nothing had been announced, and that no decisions had been made. Not the same thing.

Stay tuned, folks.

Every time I've sort of settled myself that all hope is lost for future litverse novels someone gives me just a sliver of hope.

Perhaps I shouldn't give up my dream.....a dream of a DS9 finale novel (and another TNG relaunch novel, and another Enterprise novel, and another NF novel, and a........)

 

[Nyotarules]

I will miss the relaunch universe. I guess there is enough time between TUC and TNG to write new Star Trek stories about a different crew ala New Frontiers style.

 

[Dayton Ward]

 

[Chancellor M'rek]

I have yet to see Picard (have to wait for the eventual Blu-Ray) but just a question. Was anything from the novels mentioned in the show, any kind of Easter eggs or anything? It does sound like Picard does wipe out pretty much the entire litverse at least from "Destiny" onward.

Also, I'm curious. Say they incorporated something, like a character. Say someone on the show really liked the character of Lt. Chen and decided they were going to incorporate that character into the show (not just the name but the background of the character as well--all in). I believe Christopher first created the character way back in "Greater Than the Sum" I think it was. Would the showrunners owe anything to Christopher at all in that case? I know the authors are basically writing with a license from CBS and whatever other PTBs that are involved. But does anything go back to an author in a case like that.

Would he even get something as simple as "Lt. Chen character created by Christopher Bennett" or something akin to that? I'm just curious.

Admiral Sheer "Effing" Hubris is named Kirsten, maybe after Kirsten Beyer. I see a lot of the Cold Equations Data storyline in there.

 

[Captain_Oblivious]

AFAIK, there won't be one.

The old novelverse will simply not be written about anymore. They're not going to destroy it (in-universe) or anything like that.

So no Crisis on Infinite Treks.

It's a fate worse than destruction, if you ask me. It's just being completely forgotten about.

A damn shame too. Personally, I'd rather hear stories from the universe the authors built up over decades than the new disco/picardverse.

Different folks/strokes I guess. *shrug*

 

[Sci]

One of the things I find frustrating is that apparently not only do the novelists not get paid when an original character is used (they really ought to; the fact their contract doesn't provide for that is exploitative), but when David Mack's original character Control/Urei was adapted for Season Two of Star Trek: Discovery, he didn't even get a "Special Thanks" credit. The Marvel Television shows and Marvel Studios films don't necessarily pay the creators of their characters royalties either, but they usually at least have the decency of giving those creators a "Special Thanks" credit.

 

[Relayer1]

Damn that's a fine looking crew !

 

[Damian]

It's a fate worse than destruction, if you ask me. It's just being completely forgotten about.

I wish the relaunches could continue as an 'alternate' universe as well. I kind of got spoiled, I'll admit it. Up until the Book Shutdown of 2018 I just figured the stories would continue. Oh, I sort of knew someday they'd probably end. Maybe in some epic crossover event or something. And I always wanted to see how the relaunches would have handled the end of Romulus--esp. on how it would impact the rest of the Typhon Pact and their relations with the Khitomer allies.

And while I have yet to see Picard I have read "The Last Best Hope" so I know the back story of Picard at least.

And I have to be honest, I like where Captain Picard is the last time we saw him in "Collateral Damage" in 2387 better than where retired Admiral Picard is around the same point. Captain Picard of the litverse had to deal with an epic tragedy with the Borg invasion, and his involvement with the forced retirement of President Zife had significant impacts. But he overcame all that eventually and is in a better place than his Picard show counterpart. He's doing what he does best, commanding the Enterprise and exploring. And based on "Collateral Damage" that is where he'll stay, and that's where Captain Kirk told him to stay when he advised him not to let them do anything that takes him away from the chair.

There's a lot of hope and optimism by 2387 in the litverse. The Federation has been to Hell and back, survived and is moving in a positive direction. It's very Star Trekky and it's a bit of optimism we could use right now.

But, I just don't see it continuing. When it comes to Star Trek once canon overwrites something in prose fiction, that prose story ends. It does not continue. Sure, canon (and temporal physics for that matter) gives us an out, esp. with TNG "Parallels". The litverse can simply be one of many parallel timelines. But S&S rarely has continued a storyline that is not consistent with canon. Diane Duane's Rihannsu novels are one of a very few exceptions I can think of (and I noted in the past even in that case she did adopt some of the new canon elements where it didn't conflict with her story).

And a lot of it just has to do with simple dollars and cents. Is there a market share for the relaunches? Probably. There is a loyal contingent of fans that would have no problem watching and following Picard and reading and following the litverse. But what will sell more books. A relaunch TNG, DS9, Voyager or Enterprise novel.....or a Discovery, Picard and eventually Strange New Worlds novel? Because for each TNG, DS9 or Voyager novel they release takes a slot away from one of those other series.

The only possibility I can maybe see would be continuing the relaunches as E-book only entries. But marketing may play a role in there. I have to imagine authors don't get paid as much for an E-book as they would for a trade paperback. If that's true then you'd have to have authors willing to basically take in less money for the same amount of work--assuming these would be equivalent to at least a MMPB in length (unless I am completely wrong about that).

One of the things I find frustrating is that apparently not only do the novelists not get paid when an original character is used (they really ought to; the fact their contract doesn't provide for that is exploitative), but when David Mack's original character Control/Urei was adapted for Season Two of Star Trek: Discovery, he didn't even get a "Special Thanks" credit

Well, as KRAD pointed out, they do know that going in. There's no surprises there. But on principle I tend to agree. It'd probably be nice if they at least got some sort of stipend, or even just a plain old story credit. Going back to my character idea something like "(insert character name) based on story by (author name)".

 

[dupersuper]

Something I wrote in a comment on my first-season overview of Picard on Tor.com that I want to repeat here (though it's stuff I've said in this BBS before):

The novel continuity isn’t “lost.” The books still exist. I’m staring right at them. For that matter, the pre-Force Awakens Star Wars novels also still exist.

I don’t know why people stress about what’s real in a fictional construct, or why movies based on comic books are different from their source material (example: the Tony Stark in the comics is precisely NOTHING like the way Robert Downey Jr. plays him in the MCU) and get to be the most popular movies on the planet, yet when novels based on TV shows differ from their source material, it’s a source of pearl-clutching and/or dismissal of those novels.

Trek on screen has been contradicting Trek in print since 1979, when the opening scene of The Motion Picture shitcanned Spock Must Die! It has ever been thus, from The Next Generation and its spinoffs contradicting the Klingon and Romulan cultures developed by John M. Ford and Diane Duane to First Contact contradicting Federation to Discovery contradicting Sarek and a number of other novels.

The Federation/First Contact dichotomy is a particularly good one, because Federation remains a well-regarded novel and First Contact remains a well-regarded movie. The world can survive with two different versions of Zefram Cochrane’s life, it can survive with two different versions of what happened after Nemesis……

My head cannon is vast and versatile: I can reconcile a lot of contradictions and rework the timeline to fit in most stories.