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marlboro
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Not even the sweater?
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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It was the '80s. You should've seen the types of sweaters I wore. And polo-shirts with the alligator.
Crap I'd never wear today. Of course, I wasn't the one picking out my clothes...
The Scimitar probably had FTL sensors, so it wouldn't work
I always liked him. The problem was not so much his competence, but the rest of the crew's incompetence in those moments when he saved the day.
That's not true. The Enterprise-D has FTL sensors (or else it wouldn't be able to scan ships approaching at warp, among a myriad of other things that we know that it can do, just like pretty much every Starfleet vessel we've ever seen). It was stated in "The Battle" that until Data created one there was no known defense, even for ships like the Ent-D [http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/110.htm]:
RIKER: The Picard Manoeuvre. What is the defence against that, Data?
DATA: There is no defence, sir.
RIKER: Then devise one, fast!
KAZAGO [on viewscreen]: First Officer Kazago to human Riker.
RIKER: Not now, Kazago.
KAZAGO [on viewscreen]: We do not wish to become involved in what has become clearly a Federation matter.
RIKER: Fine, fine, Enterprise out!
KAZAGO [on viewscreen]: You should also know that DaiMon Bok no longer commands this vessel. His First Officer has confined him for engaging in this unprofitable venture. Good luck, First Officer Riker.
DATA: I have computed a possibility, Commander. Since even deep space contains trace gases, sir, a vessel in the Picard manoeuvre might seem to disappear, but our sensors could locate any sudden compression of those gases.
RIKER: And use it as an aiming point and blow our Captain to bits?
DATA: This class starship has enough power to use our tractor beam on it. Seize it, limit it's field of fire.
RIKER: Right. Concentrate shields at that point. Make it so. I hope you're right, Data.
DATA: No question of it, sir.
RIKER: Stand by!
(Stargazer suddenly appears to be in two places at once)
RIKER: Lock on tractor beam.
(And the Stargazer is held)
DATA: There is no defence, sir.
RIKER: Then devise one, fast!
KAZAGO [on viewscreen]: First Officer Kazago to human Riker.
RIKER: Not now, Kazago.
KAZAGO [on viewscreen]: We do not wish to become involved in what has become clearly a Federation matter.
RIKER: Fine, fine, Enterprise out!
KAZAGO [on viewscreen]: You should also know that DaiMon Bok no longer commands this vessel. His First Officer has confined him for engaging in this unprofitable venture. Good luck, First Officer Riker.
DATA: I have computed a possibility, Commander. Since even deep space contains trace gases, sir, a vessel in the Picard manoeuvre might seem to disappear, but our sensors could locate any sudden compression of those gases.
RIKER: And use it as an aiming point and blow our Captain to bits?
DATA: This class starship has enough power to use our tractor beam on it. Seize it, limit it's field of fire.
RIKER: Right. Concentrate shields at that point. Make it so. I hope you're right, Data.
DATA: No question of it, sir.
RIKER: Stand by!
(Stargazer suddenly appears to be in two places at once)
RIKER: Lock on tractor beam.
(And the Stargazer is held)
Without Data's defense we can conclude that the PM would have been effective (in that they would have had a 50-50 chance of guessing the true location of the Stargazer). Ergo, what you're saying isn't so.
Which is exactly why the Picard maneuver wouldn't work on the D.
There is no defense in the sense that the ship can still attack at very short range, but the sensors would not be confused about which of the two the current position is. Data's tactic predicted where it would appear so it could be stopped instantaneously.
Archer was abysmal, always came across as a bumbling buffoon.
I'm the same with Voyager, the show is always just a disappointment, the premise and (some) characters had potential but it just kept missing its mark.
You're contradicting what was said on the show.
The show itself contradicts itself often enough, though on the plus side it's generally not mucking up itself in the same season. And far more often, it's not doing so within the same episode (one would hope!! Some shows are so ****ily scripted that's what ends up happening...) Yet the show as a whole and even in some cases the individual episode mucking things up often remains enjoyable. And that leads to the biggest controversial opinion of the lot:
It's just a show.
(Though I've often noticed many audiences often preferring some semblance of structure rather than doing any old **** on any whim. Those what will swallow anything thrown their way, more power to 'em... must be easy to live like that. Or not really...)
Oh, there are some:
- Gene Rodenberry is just a name for me. Of course, I'm thankfully, that he came up with the idea of Trek, but as longer the franchise went on, he became just one producer among many... and many other had better ideas for the franchise's future than him.
- "Wrath of Khan" is waaaaaaaaaay too boring. Even "Into Darkness" was better.
- The argumentation "This isn't Trek anymore" never fits. Of course, you can like or dislike every series on its own, but they're all Trek, as long the naming rights say so.
- Gene Rodenberry is just a name for me. Of course, I'm thankfully, that he came up with the idea of Trek, but as longer the franchise went on, he became just one producer among many... and many other had better ideas for the franchise's future than him.
- "Wrath of Khan" is waaaaaaaaaay too boring. Even "Into Darkness" was better.
- The argumentation "This isn't Trek anymore" never fits. Of course, you can like or dislike every series on its own, but they're all Trek, as long the naming rights say so.
So, in that case, I guess there's nothing to discuss.
The show itself contradicts itself often enough, though on the plus side it's generally not mucking up itself in the same season. And far more often, it's not doing so within the same episode (one would hope!! Some shows are so ****ily scripted that's what ends up happening...) Yet the show as a whole and even in some cases the individual episode mucking things up often remains enjoyable. And that leads to the biggest controversial opinion of the lot:
It's just a show.
(Though I've often noticed many audiences often preferring some semblance of structure rather than doing any old **** on any whim. Those what will swallow anything thrown their way, more power to 'em... must be easy to live like that. Or not really...)
Not quite, but you said there's nothing to discuss so you guessed the last word? Indeed, why I laughed is an interesting matter... but you're going to believe what you want regardless. There, now I feel the same way you had.
That was obvious sarcasm.
Actually, it was very uninteresting.
Clearly, there are contradictions in Star Trek. But we're not going to get anywhere by saying that a point is wrong just because there are contradictions.
HOW DARE YOU?????????????????
Star Trek is a philosophy and a set of ideals that we should all be looking at and aspiring for. Any deviation from the tone and content that I have personally decided reflects those ideals is automatically declared "NOT STAR TREK" and is considered a purposeful, direct assault on everything that I, the fan, have earned and rightfully deserve. And therefore the writers, producers, actors, music composers, and key grips are all people we should hate.
You forgot about the heresy part.
Simple logic and physics.
Oh, well, and this may or may not be a controversial opinion: A lot of what's done on Star Trek violates simple logic and physics.
When it comes to FTL, there's no such thing as actual physics, because FTL is pure science fiction,*/** especially the way it's handled on Star Trek. Neither FTL travel, FTL communication, nor FTL scanning occurs in real life, yet all three exist on Star Trek, and they are presented as routine for all FTL capable-species.
But if you want to appeal to simple logic, at the start of "The Battle" no defense to the Picard Maneuver was known, and yet Federation FTL capable ships must have FTL scanning. We've seen the NCC-1701 of all letters scan at FTL. Data figured out something to scan for, and that's how the Picard Maneuver was defeated. So, without knowing what to scan for, it would have worked, even with FTL scanning.
Now, we don't know much of anything about the Ferengi vessel, but it's pretty absurd to imagine that it would not be FTL capable, given all of the circumstances. If it were FTL capable, then it would pretty much have to have FTL scanning, or else it would not be able to avoid anything that was not on its maps. So, the simplest explanation, the one in fact presented in the story, is that they were just caught by surprise by the Picard Maneuver.
Full disclosure: My reaction to the Picard Maneuver was basically that it wasn't how FTL ought to work, because seeing things in two different places is the kind of thing that would have to be overcome just to get FTL scanning to work. They had FTL scanning, we've known that. So, this is just another iteration of the writers not really understanding how things ought to work with their fantasy technology. This is another instance of self-contradictions, as another poster pointed out earlier today. Be that as it may, the writers had the characters say what they said, and here we are.
* - The Alcubierre drive theory was not published until after TNG was written (with the possible exception of the last few episodes), and in any case it hasn't influenced the development of Star Trek's fantasy tech. It hasn't led to any practical FTL, and it has yet to be demonstrated that it ever will.
** - When it comes to actual physics, including the slower-than-light stuff, Star Trek gets it wrong many, many times.
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"1966-2005 Only" is the new "TOS Only".
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