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They have to do something in the short term to stop the rioting. How can they de-escalate when people just start setting fireworks, breaking windows and looting stores? They're looting businesses where people are living upstairs. The peaceful protestors have no ability to prevent their actions but their large gatherings are now being used to cause destruction.

Nearby now they have smashed up the library of all places. A place where people come to learn. Completely mindless
 
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Not saying its not systematic but target the system where it is a problem, not with broad sweeping generalizations that "all police" and "all Americans" need to be watchful. Again, as @StarCruiser said, it's a two way street, and the generalizations isn't helping.

One commentator I listened to noted that this case has a quicker response, since Floyd's death was a week ago and already charges have been brought, the officers fired, and investigations started. Not saying it's perfect-it's not. But, it's movement.

Justice, yes. But, target the problems, not with sweeping generalizations, please.

Who is generalizing? I've mentioned that there are good cops, I specifically mentioned that Michigan sheriff joining protests. What I'm pointing out is that it is a systemic problem, as too many of the good cops don't do anything against the bad cops. What I'm pointing out is that official institutions like the DAs and police unions are too often protecting the bad cops. And while the responses to the murder of George Floyd was relatively quick, it still took days of protest for anything but the usual slap on the wrist to happen.

And remember what I mentioned about those claims I heard regarding police damaging private and public property as false flags, which I couldn't confirm before? Well, now I've seen footage of such incidents, it is included in this compilation of police violence during these protests:
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Two seperate incidents starting at the 9:10 mark, first a uniformed police officer standing on the hood of a police car smashing its windshield with several other officers standing around watching, then police officers damaging the doorfront of a building, can't really tell whether it's a shop or some other kind of public building.

Again, yes, there are good cops, but not enough of them do their job, or can do their job. And you have to get angry at them, too, you have to get angry at the DAs, at the police unions, at all those who fail the public trust by protecting those police officers who commit these crimes, and you have to demand they do something about it. Because if you don't, nothing will change, not for the better. You have to put pressure on the good people and the people in power to act.

Now, if you don't want to go outside and join the protest in the streets out of fear, I totally understand that. But with the tools of Social Media, you can stay safe inside your home and still make your voice heard. Share those videos of police brutality, demand change, speak up. Or things will only get worse.
 
There's pressure on good people from all the destroyed businesses, and worry that the looters will head in their directions, but I'm not sure crime rolling through the neighborhood every night is going to take people in the right direction. Many of the people supporting change are the ones in harm's way like the shop owners

Minority owned businesses smashed and robbed, and protestors arent equipped to stop that, leaving police and residents trying to defend themselves. It will create a whole new round of people angry at eachother
 
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Who is generalizing?
If I misunderstood the below statement then I apologize, sincerely.
Seriously, America, your police is fucked up.

I agree that bad actors need to be held to account. But, right now, the violence isn't allowing that to happen. We're focused on the wrong problem right now trying to curtail the violence instead of prosecuting the bad actors, police with false flags, and rioters and looters.
 
I am very mixed on where I stand on this issue now. I fully support peaceful protests and I agree the black community has every right to protest. Our criminal justice system and police system are corrupt. However, what I've seen the last few nights is violent riots, memorials being vandalized, car windows (With the drivers in the car) smashed in, a couple in New York brutally beaten for trying to defend their business, and I feel like the narrative is if I don't support the riots than I don't support George Floyd and I support Police brutality. I don't think any side is doing anything to de-esculate this from Trump to the Governors, to just the local level. Everyone is stuck in an ideology and I think it's going to get worse.

What happened to Floyd was terrible and it should never ever happen. I'm surprised the other officers have not been arrested yet. I think the best protest I saw coming out of this was what happened in Flint Michigan where the police put down the batons and joined the protesters for a parade. That's how you build trust. I think you need to do it from the ground up because there is no trust in the police at all.

I don't know what is going to happen, and I'm fearful that we are on the brink of another civil war. I do know that I support the message that is trying to be conveyed, but I do not support the riots and assaulting innocent people, and that includes the despicable actions I've seen from the Police as well. They are only making a tense situation even worse.
 
I don't know what is going to happen, and I'm fearful that we are on the brink of another civil war. I do know that I support the message that is trying to be conveyed, but I do not support the riots and assaulting innocent people, and that includes the despicable actions I've seen from the Police as well. They are only making a tense situation even worse.
Indeed. It's a hard and anxious situations with no easy answers right off. I am angry but more than that I'm scared that instead of finding cooperation we're just going to find division.
 
If I misunderstood the below statement then I apologize, sincerely.

Okay, you did misunderstand, which is not your fault, I didn't really get to the point immediately there. I was talking about your police situation as a whole, not generalizing all police officers as excessively violent. And I explained the situation as a whole, which includes the good cops and DAs looking the other way, includes police unions working to actively protect and defend violent cops. And that police situation as a whole is fucked up and needs to change, it does not mean that every police person is a violent criminal.

I am very mixed on where I stand on this issue now. I fully support peaceful protests and I agree the black community has every right to protest. Our criminal justice system and police system are corrupt. However, what I've seen the last few nights is violent riots, memorials being vandalized, car windows (With the drivers in the car) smashed in, a couple in New York brutally beaten for trying to defend their business, and I feel like the narrative is if I don't support the riots than I don't support George Floyd and I support Police brutality. I don't think any side is doing anything to de-esculate this from Trump to the Governors, to just the local level. Everyone is stuck in an ideology and I think it's going to get worse.

What happened to Floyd was terrible and it should never ever happen. I'm surprised the other officers have not been arrested yet. I think the best protest I saw coming out of this was what happened in Flint Michigan where the police put down the batons and joined the protesters for a parade. That's how you build trust. I think you need to do it from the ground up because there is no trust in the police at all.

I don't know what is going to happen, and I'm fearful that we are on the brink of another civil war. I do know that I support the message that is trying to be conveyed, but I do not support the riots and assaulting innocent people, and that includes the despicable actions I've seen from the Police as well. They are only making a tense situation even worse.

At least in this thread, nobody is asking you to support violence on any side. Any violence is to be condemned, and that should go without saying. But it is the silent tolerance of the system towards police violence which is what these protests are all about. The protests are the condemnation of the systems tolerance of the violence of a specific group of people against other groups of people.

Again, the police are supposed to be trained for and practice de-escalation, of which they are capable as we've seen just a few weeks ago when armed anti-lockdown protesters stormed government buildings, among other things.

The protesters are neither trained, nor is it their job to de-escalate. They have a right to protest, and the only thing that the law requires of them is that they themselves do not instigate violence themselves (they do, however, have a right to defend themselves), no protester is responsible for the actions of any other protester, or anybody but themselves.

An officer of the law, however, when he witnesses another police person committing a crime, especially during deployment working with people, has not just the moral responsibility, but the duty by law, to report that criminal police person to their superior, who then have the duty by law to set an official investigation in motion to not only discipline that police person, but start a criminal investigation as well. That's how the law is supposed to work, and that is where the system is broken.
 
I turned on the news for a few minutes when I got up this morning, and actually saw some good news. The protests in Phoenix stayed peaceful, and at one point some of the cops when down on one knee, and later the protestors came over and they shook the cops hands. I can't help but wonder if the fact that the PHX Police Chief is a black woman, has an effect on the attitude of the police at the protests.
 
I am very mixed on where I stand on this issue now. I fully support peaceful protests and I agree the black community has every right to protest. Our criminal justice system and police system are corrupt. However, what I've seen the last few nights is violent riots, memorials being vandalized, car windows (With the drivers in the car) smashed in, a couple in New York brutally beaten for trying to defend their business, and I feel like the narrative is if I don't support the riots than I don't support George Floyd and I support Police brutality.

The problem is that once the rioting begins it takes on a life of its own and turns into a mindless frenzy of destruction. One doesn't necessarily have to support the riots (who does?), but it is possible to understand the justifiable anger that lies behind it.

at one point some of the cops went down on one knee

I've read examples of this happening on Twitter and in those instances it was apparently just a photo-op for the media and the police who knelt for the cameras started beating and gassing the protesters an hour later.
 
I agree that bad actors need to be held to account. But, right now, the violence isn't allowing that to happen. We're focused on the wrong problem right now trying to curtail the violence instead of prosecuting the bad actors, police with false flags, and rioters and looters.
Take anarchists, white supremacists, police, and purely opportunistic looters who are drumming up violence and property destruction for their own selfish and hateful motives out of the equation and purely look at it from the perspective of black people and other POCs and protesters with a legitimate grievance against the police.

You can't say the violence is preventing the prosecution of the bad actors, because the bad actors wouldn't even have been charged without the violence taking place to motivate the DA to do something. Hell, even with the violence they only charged one of the four cops involved and the cop with his knee on Floyd's neck with only a BS "third degree" murder charge which means they claim he didnt intend for Floyd to die when he kept his knee on his throat for nine minutes despite him saying he couldn't breath and passing out. BTW, this is the first time in the history of the state of Minnesota that an officer has been charged with murder despite hundreds of cases of police-involved deaths, which follows a nationwide trend where police are rarely prosecuted for their crimes against POCs.

So no, if there was no violence not a damn thing would be happening right now, and we know that because we've seen it countless times before. Not to mention EVERY form of peaceful protest black people have used to address the issue of police brutality and murder, from things as simple as awards show comments or taking a knee during the anthem or forming Black Lives Matter has been opposed by the white majority, conservative politicians and media, and police. When you leave people no other option, they will turn to violent protest as a last resort.
 
At least in this thread, nobody is asking you to support violence on any side. Any violence is to be condemned, and that should go without saying

So no, if there was no violence not a damn thing would be happening right now

Must be a better way than random violence. I did see some uplifting news where some peaceful protestors attempted to stop looting. But another story where one protestor was attacked by the looter after trying to stop it. They need the police there to protect them but the resources and response time are bogged down now.
 
The thing about good cops is, they have to go in and work with the bad cops every day, they can't publicly side against them without being seen as a rat.

You can't take away the right to assemble from some people just because a few in the crowd, most of whom aren't even connected to the cause, don't want to do it peaceably. It's a basic Constitutional right, and it sets the precedent that anyone who ever wants to shut down a protest just needs to hire some people to go down there and break a few windows.

Maybe the cops should actually be using the de-escalation tactics they're trained on instead of going straight in with tanks and riot gear. Or, arrest only people who are specifically causing violence and not pepper spray or shoot rubber bullets at anyone who stands down.

Some of the looters aren't even infiltrators, they're just people who lost their job and see the protests as an opportunity to recover some of their losses.
 
Based on everything I’ve seen the police are doing everything they can to extend this and provoke the protesters into violence. Last night they were tear gassing peaceful protesters, my friend was there and got caught in it.
 
The thing that's driving me the most crazy is that Trump has still not really addressed the issue at the heart of all of this.
 
The thing about good cops is, they have to go in and work with the bad cops every day, they can't publicly side against them without being seen as a rat.
"Good cops" don't stay silent or remain passive when they see police abuse, brutality or murder happening just because they're worried about the backlash from their fellow officers. That's all it takes to allow systemic injustice to persist, for good men and women to do nothing.. There are a lot of cops who have experienced this kind of racism and abuse themselves and oppose the excessive use of force against POC, yet they choose to not intervene or be a whistleblower out of camaraderie or fear of reprisal. That's inexcusable.
 
The idealist side of me agrees. In the real world though, humans are humans, and humans are loyal to the people they spend their time with, especially for cops when those are the people who are covering them in a dangerous situation.

It doesn't take a good person to speak out against the people they work with every day, it takes a *saint*.
 
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