Discovery Strongest Ship?

[Henoch]

I'm surprised we haven't seen the Europa-class again. I thought it looked really cool (and even had a bridge designed for it but never built)

I note that it had a 1600 series registry number. The Europa appears to be an upgraded/up-powered Reliant type ship. Has anyone been able to list all the serial numbers from DSC to determine whether this production staff has a theory on registry numbers or not?

 

[Timo]

Well, the "theory" would first and foremost have to accommodate the hero ship, which is implied to be brand new yet has one of the lowest numbers in the entire lot.

In-universe, it would be easy to argue that all the ships hail from "registry-appropriate decades" but have been uniformly refitted with the latest in angular warp nacelles. Any potentially anachronistic details and paint jobs could then be blamed on this refit: sometimes Starfleet would repaint and rearm the ships that got the new nacelles, sometimes not. (And rebuilding NCC-1031 to Stamets' specs would also involve polishing the shuttlebay floor, enough to fool a couple of convicts.)

Perhaps the ones with 1600 numbers got the new nacelles from the get-go, while only the ones with the 1000 numbers (plus that casualty-replacement batch at 1700 that we are so familiar with) ever sported the antique round ones, and the assorted 1200s and 1400s in between had in-between styles?

If we go into detail, the lowly NCC-1004 does have a clumsy hull perhaps appropriate for Kelvinverse ships, the Baton Rouge and so forth. Perhaps the TOS-tilted rim came to fashion shortly afterwards, and remained so through NCC-1309 and NCC-1413, while the ENT-tilted rim had preceded the vertical rim and was still going strong when the class ship for the Shenzhou was built? But that hero ship, too, defies chrono-registry-logic with her 1227...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tim Thomason]

I just figure that, in the Discovery/TOS era, they just re-use registries. Registry numbers aren't for historical or record-keeping purposes, yet, just to tell you what ship is what on the field utilizing the latest info. Everyone knows this, so doesn't blink at a 1227 or 1031 or 1017. Maybe some are "retired" like jerseys (the 01 used by Enterprise and then Dauntless). In STIV, instead of retiring the 1701 number (which may have been used twice per Kelvinverse comics), they added a letter to be cute.

By the TNG era, they decided not to re-use registries and numbers skyrocketed.

 

[Timo]

It sorta helps. But we probably have to accept that NCC-1701 was never reused, until they got into the suffix letter business; otherwise our rather definitive lists of extant Enterprises (say, "Relics") would not hold true.

What does this mean with respect to the age of Pike's ship? Was she so ancient that she indeed was the first-ever NCC-1701, even though Starfleet was already operating its third NCC-1403 and its second NCC-2102?

(Okay, it's not necessarily that strict. Scotty did specify that he wanted an Enterprise before shaking his fist at the computer and insisting that it choose the right ship on basis of her being NCC-1701. Perhaps the previous three NCC-1701s had been named the Parakeet, the Universe and the Sammy Davis Junior?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Henoch]

(Okay, it's not necessarily that strict. Scotty did specify that he wanted an Enterprise before shaking his fist at the computer and insisting that it choose the right ship on basis of her being NCC-1701.

SCOTT: The android at the bar said you could show me my old ship. Let me see it.
COMPUTER: Insufficient data. Please specify parameters.
SCOTT: The Enterprise. Show me the Bridge of the Enterprise, you chattering piece of
COMPUTER: There have been five Federation ships with that name. Please specify by registry number.
SCOTT: NCC One Seven Oh One. No bloody A, B, C, or D.
COMPUTER: Programme complete. Enter when ready.

Based on the input data, the computer had a 25% chance to display the correct ship. It could have pulled up the WNMHGB-era bridge, the TOS-era bridge, the TMP-era bridge or the TWOK-era bridge...

 

[Tim Thomason]

Based on the input data, the computer had a 25% chance to display the correct ship. It could have pulled up the WNMHGB-era bridge, the TOS-era bridge, the TMP-era bridge or the TWOK-era bridge...

The computer knows a number of things based on this conversation. She knows:
- That she is talking to Captain Montgomery Scott, who has been assigned to numerous ships (enumerated in the episode even).
- That he wants to see the "Bridge of the Enterprise". She probably knows that he was assigned to just two, but allows for him to redefine for another ship he was on (like the B) or curious about (like the C or D).
- Further, that he specifies it being the NCC-1701. At which point she ends the information-seeking and settles on something fitting the parameters.

Yeah, the modular nature of the bridge leads to at least four major design eras and a couple of smaller facelifts over the years, but the computer probably recognized at that point that Scott wanted a bridge he was familiar with (probably eliminating Disco-era designs) but also of historical value and specific nostalgic value to this individual. She can calculate the number of hours he spent commanding during the five-year mission versus his time spent in the post-five year era when he was mostly reassembling engineering for a refit or stopping by the bridge only to drop off a dead nephew.

This is one of many scenes that demonstrates the computer had a pretty good since of understanding and figuring out through implication. Scotty was drunk and wasn't very clear when asking for a holoprogram to be designed on the fly, but the computer made due and narrowed down what he wanted after just two short inquiries.

 

[Timo]

...Naturally, we may also assume the computer got it wrong, and Scotty in fact wanted the bridge just as is looked like when he first set foot on it in 2261 or whatever, with all the holograms and plasma helices and the mini-transporter in the corner. But the mid-2260s looks were fine with him, too, and the headache was getting worse, so he stopped complaining and sat down.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lord Garth]

Shifting to 3187, I think the new non-binary character is going to be who helps Reno and Stamets to upgrade Discovery's tactical and weaponry. Otherwise, the ship's defenses will be over 900 years out of date. That has to put Discovery at a disadvantage against anyone hostile they'll run into.

 

[Timo]

Well, she was at a disadvantage against pretty much every opponent but Spock's stolen shuttle. The Klingons she couldn't make a dent in. The Red Sphere was just about to blow and still the guns of the Discovery couldn't have hurt it. The Ba'ul coast guard was going to make short work of her. Section 31 evaded, chased and outgunned her as it pleased.

Being able to run from every opponent was a big factor in daring to engage these enemies in the first place. Perhaps the same factor would sufficiently protect the heroes in the future? Unless, of course, future baddies can also teleport at will.

Why the future would be more advanced than the present is a bit of a mystery, though. Humanlike intelligence is about four billion years old in the Trek Milky Way. It has diversified since, so there ought to be intelligences at every level from "Look rock go bang bang!" to "Why bother traveling at infinite speed when we know everything about everything everywhere anyway?". Why would the heroes suddenly interact with a more advanced subset of that just because they move ahead a thousand years or so? (But perhaps they don't, and the local space is actually less advanced technologically than the Feds of the 2250s were?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lord Garth]

Well, she was at a disadvantage against pretty much every opponent but Spock's stolen shuttle. The Klingons she couldn't make a dent in. The Red Sphere was just about to blow and still the guns of the Discovery couldn't have hurt it. The Ba'ul coast guard was going to make short work of her. Section 31 evaded, chased and outgunned her as it pleased.

Being able to run from every opponent was a big factor in daring to engage these enemies in the first place. Perhaps the same factor would sufficiently protect the heroes in the future? Unless, of course, future baddies can also teleport at will.

Why the future would be more advanced than the present is a bit of a mystery, though. Humanlike intelligence is about four billion years old in the Trek Milky Way. It has diversified since, so there ought to be intelligences at every level from "Look rock go bang bang!" to "Why bother traveling at infinite speed when we know everything about everything everywhere anyway?". Why would the heroes suddenly interact with a more advanced subset of that just because they move ahead a thousand years or so? (But perhaps they don't, and the local space is actually less advanced technologically than the Feds of the 2250s were?)

After just watching ENT, it seems to be that most of the powers that Earth dealt with had a shared level of technology. Meaning that once one race becomes aware of another race's technology, they try to duplicate it or acquire it through trade. Earth was behind but once the Federation was formed, I think Earth was caught up with where the technology was with most of everyone else it was interacting with in 2161.

The technology in TOS/DSC is more advanced than the technology in ENT, the technology in TNG/DS9/VOY is more advanced than in TOS/DSC, etc. It seems as if the Federation of Braxton's time is more advanced than in TNG/DS9/VOY. So it looks like technology has increased over time among the Interstellar Community that the Federation has interacted with. I don't think technological development reached a plateau. It might've slowed down, but I don't think it stalled out. At least not between Picard and Braxton. After Braxton is anyone's guess.

The outliers are either pre-warp civilizations or races so advanced that they don't interact with the Federation and its peers/competitors. And I'm assuming they don't interact with them 930 years later.

 

[Timo]

The problem is interaction all right. Only lack of speed and thus range would protect the Earth of 2150 from the technology of more advanced civilizations a thousand lightyears away. That is, those civilizations would have the speed, but as long as Earth did not, it couldn't go and yank on Superman's cape till there was conflict and a rat race, or Superman threw down some sweets out of pity. And Superman himself would not feel obligated to travel to Earth.

But in a future where the superfast, galactic-range Discovery is outclassed, speed would appear to have reached the threshold level where nobody is safe from the tugging. The Feds would be where the Borg are now: there's nobody left to rip off, and it is by sheer chance that something worth stealing is discovered perhaps once a few decades, even though the entire Milky Way is constantly and indeed daily being searched for potential victims.

Those very advanced folks who refuse to share would still be there, and speed/range would make no difference to them. Anybody willing to share or compete would already be forced or tempted to do that, though. But of course primitives like the 2150s Earth would now be safe because we had become the Supermen, disinterested in them. (Although the Borg don't seem to think that way: they still steal agricultural innovations from Icheb's bombed-back-to-stone-age folks, say.)

Hitting the sweet zone where speeds are not yet infinite and practical ranges fall short of galactic would be the issue. In what circumstances is that possible, yet with other technologies marching on sufficiently to show us that This Is The Future?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Shifting to 3187, I think the new non-binary character is going to be who helps Reno and Stamets to upgrade Discovery's tactical and weaponry. Otherwise, the ship's defenses will be over 900 years out of date. That has to put Discovery at a disadvantage against anyone hostile they'll run into.

That's if the galaxy hasn't gone to shit and everyone's flying around broken down ancient rustbuckets with no idea how to repair them.

 

[Turtletrekker]

That's if the galaxy hasn't gone to shit and everyone's flying around broken down ancient rustbuckets with no idea how to repair them.

A galaxy full of Pakleds.

 

[Lord Garth]

A galaxy full of Pakleds.

That's Star Trek being a parallel for Today.