Would you say Picard is prime timeline or part of the Discoverse?
- Thread starter Yes Man the Great
- Start date
Edit: Nevermind.
Dude, if you can't actually articulate yourself, just say so.
The in-universe reason does not matter. What matters is that the alien design change was just as significant as the change to DIS Klingons, but you declare one to be irrelevant and the other to be cause for claiming DIS is another continuity.
Your behavior is arbitrary and hypocritical.
If you don't like the DIS Klingon design, just say that. Don't play these fucking "I have an objective standard I adhere to" bullshit.
Yeah, bullshit. It was a magic virus powered by handwave-ium and technobabble that meant nothing IRL. "We've got to [tech] the [tech]!" in a million Berman-era ST scripts is not real science.
That is a creative interpretation that may well be used to justify the inconsistency in your own personal interpretation of the work. That's fine if that's how you want to interpret it!
But nothing in that exchange addresses why Klingons in TMP look different from Klingons in every other production both before and after. The characters do not say, "Yes, the crew of the IKS Whatever all had a skinny bone ridge down the center of their foreheads because they chose a particular cranial reconstruction artist but most Klingons chose something different." A creative interpretation of the text is not the same thing as actual textual content.
They are all influenced by yellowface and brownface makeup traditions, which you would know if you read up on the damn subject before opening your mouth to spew ignorant blather.
Look up the history of yellowface, brownface, and blackface. Please. Stop pretending there's nothing fundamentally offensive about Fu Manchu designs.
They are not aliens on a sci-fi show. They are actors wearing makeup in the real world, and that makeup is designed by people from a white supremacist culture.
Here, start with this and then go do more research afterwards:
They have huge forehead bumps, and the antennae are much shorter and lack the insectoid-looking phalanges. It's a huge change that's easily on par with the DIS Klingon change, and 20 years ago fandom was screaming about it.
This
looks absolutely nothing like this.
Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Again. The Klingons have had more makeovers than the other races. The Trill was a one off on TNG and fleshed out in DS9. The Andorians, to my eyes are a subtle update. I guess we can all go round and round with this. But in the end the Klingons have been screwed with more than any other race the Lastest revision is the furthest departure. Star Wars has been running for over 40 years and has kept the makeup of races the same.
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It's all of them
All of them except the guy on bottom, far right. He is to Klingons what Remans are to Romulans! The mistake to never be spoken of again!
Jason
You mean that Ork?
Honestly, the TOS Klingons stand out way more than the DSC Klingon, sorry.
Remember when people were mad at the Into Darkness Klingon design with it's pointy ears, piercings and bright blue eyes? Wow that feels like a lifetime ago now it's all "they're all Klingons except the Discovery ones"
until the net design comes along when they're all Klingons except the new onesRemember when people were mad at the Into Darkness Klingon design with it's pointy ears, piercings and bright blue eyes? Wow that feels like a lifetime ago now it's all "they're all Klingons except the Discovery ones"
I find it relevant if a new look that's then consistent 171 times follows 1 different appearance (Trill), or if a new look follows 384 consistent looks (Klingons). It's clear what the outlier in the Trill design is. DIS is the Klingon outlier.
That's what I'm hoping will come up in some future episode. And that some artist faction took over weapons and ship design until the previous group took over again XD
Klingons - doing social isolation in viral pandemics decades before (production-wise) it was cool XD
I actually do like these designs, also the ships and props, as a new alien culture.
The contortions some people will go through to explain differences in makeup is astonishing.
glad i could help you with your lack of salad understanding. many people understand visual info much better than text. all my words are in dictionaries btw.
what might not matter to you can easily matter to other people. you can dismiss and i can appreciate the same canon details. i even quantified the changes for you, which is essential for any significance or relevance statement. where's your quantification to support your point?
i like the designs as a new alien culture. every person can adhere to their standards. so can you. so can i. none of which is "bullshit".
did you read the article? where is your evidence that shows viruses cannot be used as vectors for transgenesis, or that transgenes have no effects? i assume you have no connection to real science.
it is very plausible that the authors had precisely that intention. it is perfectly logical and not at all a "creative interpretation". do you not understand what cranial reconstruction means, and that TMP-VOY shows reconstructed craniums over time until they were fully reconstructed as in ENT? is actually makes a lot of sense, which is why i like these episodes and their explanation. they unified previously inconsistent parts of the trekverse. DIS then tore a new rift in the same place.
again: how is antaak connected to yellow/brownface?
again: how is marab as k'vagh's son played by possibly another brown-toned actor connected to yellow/brownface?
klingons are aliens. trek is a sci-fi show. all non-humanoid alien actors wear makeup. even humanoids wear makeup. do you really wanna call westmore et al. white supremacists?
again: there are all kinds of colors in alien designs, why should the palette be limited? and which other colors would you want to exclude?
so it's about their beards and skin tones? again: do you find worf, gowron, duras, or martok offensive, disturbing, and racist as well? because of their beards? are the kazon or xyrillians (for example) also offensive or disturbing, and can any actor play them?
you keep ignoring relevant questions that challenge your position, and it's really obvious.
show me the huge andorian forehead bumps. again: antennae are 1 part, klingons had 8 parts changed.
see above.This
looks absolutely nothing like this.
Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Out of all these, which are the real Klingons? - My dear Trekkie, they are all real. - Even the DIS ones? - Especially the DIS ones.Remember when people were mad at the Into Darkness Klingon design with it's pointy ears, piercings and bright blue eyes? Wow that feels like a lifetime ago now it's all "they're all Klingons except the Discovery ones"
Indeed. How quickly some people forget.Remember when people were mad at the Into Darkness Klingon design with it's pointy ears, piercings and bright blue eyes? Wow that feels like a lifetime ago now it's all "they're all Klingons except the Discovery ones"
Early design for TMP's Klingon Captain by Ian McLean, on Flickr
Early design for Star Trek: The Motion Picture Klingon Captain by Robert Fletcher. [First published in "Starlog" #33, April 1980.] I remember people saying, "Gee, these would have been so cool!"
TMP Andorian Crewman by Ian McLean, on Flickr
TMP Andorian Female Ambassador by Ian McLean, on Flickr
New tendril antennae, eyebrow/forehead bumps, first visible external ears.
DSC Mirror Shukar by Ian McLean, on Flickr
Tendrilled eyebrow ridges, cheek bumps and grooves, forehead bumps...
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That part of the discussion was about ENT.
TMP Andorian Crewman by Ian McLean, on Flickr
TMP Andorian Female Ambassador by Ian McLean, on Flickr
New tendril antennae, eyebrow/forehead bumps, first visible external ears.
DSC Mirror Shukar by Ian McLean, on Flickr
Tendrilled eyebrow ridges, cheek bumps and grooves, forehead bumps...
So the Andorians got minor forehead bumps in TMP which disappeared in TNG and were back in ENT. Antennae were curved with a funnel in TOS, then became thin and pointy in TMP-TNG, then got thicker again in ENT. DIS added spikes instead of eyebrows, and minor cheek texture. Those changes still don't compare to the 8 radical differences in DIS Klingons, but I do disagree with the eyebrow spikes. PIC got rid of them and gave them human eyebrows, and antennae between TOS and ENT.
I also don't like the tusks DIS added to the Tellarites, but I don't mind the very faint grooves PIC gave the Romulan ears.
TNG Trill, TNG Andorians and PIC Romulan Zhaban are Northerners
No, but they are all equally canonical.
Sure, so are Threshold, Allamaraine, and The Fight. Doesn't mean everyone has to like them.
Why make a new one when you can expand upon an existing one?
Exactly. But that's what we've been saying. You don't have to like it. It can end with "I don't like it," and that's fine.
Some of the pushback to what you're saying is from when you're counting the appearances as if that carries some weight as to validity, when it's simply that they did it one way, before a different they* decided to do it another way, and maybe afterwards another they* decided to do it yet another way (or back to the first way, as the case may be), and so forth.
* - not necessarily all different
DSC, PIC, and all the rest of them are in the prime timeline. Simple as that. /thread
I could give a damn about visuals. The showrunners say that DSC and PiC are priime, so therefore they are.
We don't have to like them (though I do), but it is simply not our place to tell others what a show IS. Only a show's creator can.
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