Game The Most Disliked Prime Directive Episode/Movie

[ananta]

Saving “Patterns of Force”. The whole concept is problematic, and by this point I was truly over the parallel Earth episodes, but it is entertaining enough, largely courtesy of Shatner and Nimoy.

“Homeward” brings problematic to a whole new level and made the Prime Directive seem an unspeakably inhuman and heartless dogma. As the crew are watching a planet die, Picard tries to rally their spirits by reminding them how important and how wonderful the Prime Directive is.

 

[Brennyren]

“Homeward” brings problematic to a whole new level and made the Prime Directive seem an unspeakably inhuman and heartless dogma.

Amen to that! That episode was one of the reasons I once led a panel discussion called "Down With the Prime Directive!" at a Shore Leave convention. (No, I have no special credentials -- just an attitude and some talent for arguing. And I needed both, because I was pretty much the only person on my side!)

 

[eschaton]

Amen to that! That episode was one of the reasons I once led a panel discussion called "Down With the Prime Directive!" at a Shore Leave convention. (No, I have no special credentials -- just an attitude and some talent for arguing. And I needed both, because I was pretty much the only person on my side!)

TBH I kind of appreciate when the Prime Directive is interpreted in ways we think are horrendously immoral, because there's no reason to presume the 24th Century Federation would have morality which would exactly mirror modern-day secular humanism. It's the future goddamnit - they should be at least a little culturally alien to us!

 

[Brennyren]

^^^ Sure, I can see that. But of course I framed the argument in terms of contemporary morality, because that was the framework the audience and I were familiar with. And also because, in my experience, some fans tend to interpret our heroes' actions (I say "our heroes" and not "the Federation," because of course sometimes our heroes act in opposition to the Federation) as moral because they're being done by our heroes. And I wanted people to see that, by our lights, they may not be.

 

[Qonundrum]

Saving “Patterns of Force”. The whole concept is problematic, and by this point I was truly over the parallel Earth episodes, but it is entertaining enough, largely courtesy of Shatner and Nimoy.

“Homeward” brings problematic to a whole new level and made the Prime Directive seem an unspeakably inhuman and heartless dogma. As the crew are watching a planet die, Picard tries to rally their spirits by reminding them how important and how wonderful the Prime Directive is.

After the grossly over-contrived "The Masterpiece Society" (and replace "piece" with something else...)

"Pen Pals" did it right, stupid singing shell aside. By the seashore.

 

[Brennyren]

"Pen Pals" did it right, stupid singing shell aside. By the seashore.

"Pen Pals" made the TNG senior staff, save Data, Pulaski, and LaForge, sound extraordinarily disengaged and cold-blooded. Here is an entire planet of people, none of whom have done anything to cause their planet's extinction, whom you can save without their ever knowing you've done anything. Instead you sit around and make the case for why you should let them die, referring to fate, destiny, and history as if any of those have intention. And in the end, the only reason the Dremans live is because Picard is not quite a big enough bastard to ignore a little girl's plea for help.

Bah. I can understand wanting to avoid remaking cultures in one's own image, and until "Pen Pals" that was what I had understood the Prime Directive's intent to be: to avert cultural imperialism. To let a whole planet of people die when you can save them without their ever even knowing -- and then to promote it as the moral imperative in the situation? Wow. Just effing wow. That's unbelievably cold.

 

[Qonundrum]

"Pen Pals" made the TNG senior staff, save Data, Pulaski, and LaForge, sound extraordinarily disengaged and cold-blooded. Here is an entire planet of people, none of whom have done anything to cause their planet's extinction, whom you can save without their ever knowing you've done anything. Instead you sit around and make the case for why you should let them die, referring to fate, destiny, and history as if any of those have intention. And in the end, the only reason the Dremans live is because Picard is not quite a big enough bastard to ignore a little girl's plea for help.

Bah. I can understand wanting to avoid remaking cultures in one's own image, and until "Pen Pals" that was what I had understood the Prime Directive's intent to be: to avert cultural imperialism. To let a whole planet of people die when you can save them without their ever even knowing -- and then to promote it as the moral imperative in the situation? Wow. Just effing wow. That's unbelievably cold.

Good points. The discussion of "destiny" and "cosmic plan" did get borderline pretentious, how Frakes and Sirtis managed to carry through that scene is remarkably good -- but the scene still is arguably heavyhanded and almost seems unhinged from the plot given how they sit around and wax philosophic.

But at the same time, I always got the vibe that Geordi, Pulaski, and Data were fighting for Sarjenka and her people. Even if they took a clinical and semidetached approach. At least they still had empathy. And it was Data (with Pulaski and Geordi) that got "uncomfy around kids" Picard to agree to try to save the people, and to show a side of him other than being coldblooded and disengaged himself. Indeed, once they took off the clinical hats they put the human ones back on and actually worked together to save Drema (a not very subtle anagram of "dream").

And in the end, detestable magic snail shell aside, they saved the planet and people without any of them thinking Picard and crew are deities. (Just as long as Sarjenka's cheesy memory wipe worked, made more cheesy by Data leaving the conch there - which tries to end the episode with an ice warm fuzzy but does more to poison the culture than anything else. You know they will be asking "Where did this come from!", if nothing else.

I found the entire discussion:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Sakonna]

Thrilled with "Homeward" as the winner! Finally another TNG to join "Descent, Part II" on the winners board.

I was actually writing a post making "Homeward" winner when @ananta happily beat me to it -- I was trying to leave the final elimination for someone else, but as the hours passed I thought "I can't let 'Homeward' escape!"

The tone they take in that one is just so gruesome! It's the condescension and the certainty when they're lecturing about the gorgeous moral beauty of Prime Directive that makes it so repulsive. "Dear Doctor" is the other particularly egregious offender on that count for me.

(In "Homeward"s defense, I will say I don't mind the Worf/Brother relationship stuff, and I appreciate Penny Johnson in this other Trek role)

Saving "Who Watches the Watchers", one of the best episodes in all of Trek, and one that is more relevant than ever, with the forces of obscurantism surging in the past few years. Its only flaw: the title should've been in Latin ("Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?").

Trek has a history of using Latin, and I can't think of a single instance where it doesn't come across as being pretentious... But if instead we used pig-latin...

I don't think it's pretentious (we need to get rid of this anti-intellectualist mentality, tbh), particularly when it's a quote. Quotes should, ideally, be made in the original language, and "who watches the watchers" is such a quote.
Now, to trust actors to not mispronounce is another matter. I still remember "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" pronounced with very English "silent".

Forever I've wanted to do Latin-titled episodes as a game, and this is a sign that the time is now.

Thanks for playing all, and hope to see you on the next one, which will be a quickie: "The Most Disliked Latin Title Episode"

Also...

And is it just me or does Yar get the best character development, impassioned about how Starfleet saved her from rapegangs and other nasty things? (Oh what might have been if Ms. Crosby remained for season 2 and 3 and hoping to get stronger material...

I always thought the same... with the raw material for that character, it could have been so incredible if she stuck around till better seasons.

On the other hand, it may have just been a lot of hideous ROTW's for Yar. "You make me forget the rape gangs!"

I do think Ro was basically "Tasha with good writing," so that's something.

MOST DISLIKED "WINNER"LOSERS, 2020
"HEY, THIS PLANET IS JUST LIKE EARTH!": TOS, Season 1: "Miri"
SEASON PREMIERE: TNG, Season 7: "Descent, Part II"
PRIME DIRECTIVE: TNG, Season 7: "Homeward"
LWAXANA: DS9, Season 1: "The Forsaken"
ROMANCE OF THE WEEK: DS9, Season 3: "Meridian"
FERENGI: DS9, Season 7: "The Emperor's New Cloak"
CARDASSIANS: VOY, Season 2: "Investigations"
HOLIDAY: VOY, Season 4: "Day Of Honor"
HOLODECK: VOY, Season 6: "Fair Haven"
TIME TRAVEL/ANOMALY/LOOP: VOY, Season 6: “Fury”
MAQUIS: VOY, Season 7: "Repression"
BARCLAY: VOY, Season 7: "Inside Man"
Q: VOY, Season 7: "Q2"
2-HOUR/2-PART: ENT, Season 1 & 2: "Shockwave"
VISIT TO EARTH'S "PRESENT": ENT, Season 2: "Shockwave, Part II"
KLINGONS: ENT, Season 2: "Marauders"
HALLUCINATION/ILLUSION: ENT, Season 3: "Extinction"
VISIT TO EARTH'S PAST: ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part I"
THR'S 100 GREATEST TREK EPS: ENT, Season 4: "Home"
CAST CROSSOVER: ENT, Season 4: "These Are The Voyages..."
MIRROR UNIVERSE: DIS, Season 1: "What's Past Is Prologue"
INTRODUCTION OF RECURRING ALIENS: DIS, Season 2: "An Obol For Charon" (the jahSepp)
SECTION 31: DIS, Season 2: "Perpetual Infinity"
ROMULANS: PIC, Season 1: "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1"

TOTAL SHOW WINS
TAS, Short Treks, & Movies - 0 wins
TOS and PIC - 1 win each
TNG - 2 wins
DS9 and DIS - 3 wins each
VOY and ENT - 7 wins each

 

[Qonundrum]

I don't think it's pretentious (we need to get rid of this anti-intellectualist mentality, tbh), particularly when it's a quote. Quotes should, ideally, be made in the original language, and "who watches the watchers" is such a quote.

It's all a matter of perspective, but I don't disagree with you.

 

[at Quark's]

I feel very conflicted about Homeward. I hate, and I mean positively hate the way the Prime Directive is used here, but if I "overlook" that part, it isn't such a bad episode as the rest of the story is rather engaging. The saddest thing is I don't even think the PD was really needed in the plot here. All it really does is create a little tension between Picard en Nikolai, and perhaps we could have found another excuse for that to happen. And even if not --what would have been the problem with everyone on board agreeing to this approach and the then holodeck still playing up and all that? We would have had the same story, essentially.

When Nikolai made the point I would have made in his place ( And isn't that what the Prime Directive was truly intended to do, to allow cultures to survive and grow naturally?) he gets the lamest rebuttal ever from Troi : Not entirely. The Prime Directive was designed to ensure non-interference. Sounds like even the writers couldn't come up with a better defense of it at this point than just repeating what it does instead of telling us the supposed intention of it.

Fortunately, at the end we have this little scene:

CRUSHER: Are you saying you're sorry we saved the Boraalans?
PICARD: No, of course not. Our plan for them worked out well.

So in my head canon Picard was secretly glad Nikolai did this, because because of his adherence to the PD he couldn't have done so himself. However, as Captain he never could have let that Nikolai -or even Worf- know that, and so he only admitted that to someone as close to him as Beverley was. It may be that way, or it may not, but at least this line of reasoning makes the entire issue a little more digestible for me.