Any point in secret identities?

[TREK_GOD_1]

If she'd known, she'd know why Peter wasn't at his place and instead of waiting around for him to come back just go home and see if Spidey was okay on TV. Thus, she wouldn't have been there when the Goblin came to Peter's place looking for HIM.

Absurd. Gwen died because of the point you want to miss: anyone--hero or villain--poses a risk to civilians by knowing they are a part of the hero's private life, while civilians in on the secret are placed in greater danger, like Gwen or Iris West Allen. Osborn--Hell bent on revenge-- would continue to canvas the city if no one was at the apartment, and knowing all about Parker's civilian life, he would target someone else to use in the manner seen with Gwen. The civilian knowing Parker's ID would not protect them from a superpowered madman's hunt/attack.

Further, its cartoonish to think his civilian family/friends are going to live a life where they are constantly disrupting their regular lives to be on high alert whenever yet another villain in on the secret is on the rampage, escaped prison, etc.

Illogical and as always, creatively bankrupt.

 

[Replica Picard]

[QUOTE="TREK_GOD_1]The civilian knowing Parker's ID would not protect them from a superpowered madman's hunt/attack.

Illogical and as always, creatively bankrupt.[/QUOTE]
Unless, you know, knowledge of his secret identity also came with a level up: "Oh, um, yeah, I'm Spiderman. And now that I've revealed that to you, here's an old Iron Man suit Tony said is a few generations older than his current one - but good enough to help keep you safe when stuff goes down. Also, I asked him to install a panic room here and under your house."

I don't see where there's call to get personal and attack other posters: especially, since you're incorrect, to boot.

I mean, if we were really trying to be realistic or imaginative, we might see that supers and their loved ones would be getting killed left and right, anyway. It's a very dangerous profession, and real supervillains generally wouldn't play as fair as many of the ones in the comics do. Almost every series would be a mini-series.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Unless, you know, knowledge of his secret identity also came with a level up: "Oh, um, yeah, I'm Spiderman. And now that I've revealed that to you, here's an old Iron Man suit Tony said is a few generations older than his current one - but good enough to help keep you safe when stuff goes down. Also, I asked him to install a panic room here and under your house."

Spider-Man didn't have connections like that during that period of time. No way would Tony have given him an old suit of his. It's hard to imagine even now.

 

[Replica Picard]

Spider-Man didn't have connections like that during that period of time. No way would Tony have given him an old suit of his. It's hard to imagine even now.

Maybe not those things specifically, but Peter is a genius, so I'm sure he could have figured out some options for her to use for self-defense. Heck, he could take stuff off of villains he defeats, and have an increasingly powerful super girlfriend as he goes along.

 

[Anwar]

Absurd. Gwen died because of the point you want to miss: anyone--hero or villain--poses a risk to civilians by knowing they are a part of the hero's private life, while civilians in on the secret are placed in greater danger, like Gwen or Iris West Allen.

Gwen died partly due to NOT knowing Peter's secret.

Osborn--Hell bent on revenge-- would continue to canvas the city if no one was at the apartment, and knowing all about Parker's civilian life, he would target someone else to use in the manner seen with Gwen. The civilian knowing Parker's ID would not protect them from a superpowered madman's hunt/attack.

It would make them be more cautious. Compare MJ to Gwen.

Further, its cartoonish to think his civilian family/friends are going to live a life where they are constantly disrupting their regular lives to be on high alert whenever yet another villain in on the secret is on the rampage, escaped prison, etc.

Tell that to MJ, or Alfred Pennyworth, or any other civilian partner who knows the Hero's secret and lives regardless.

Illogical and as always, creatively bankrupt.

No, the creatively bankrupt part is clinging to outdated concepts. Like Peter Parker always being a photographer who can't manage his money. Whenever we get a decent growth for him, like when he was a High School Teacher, some hack writer who hated he wasn't a photographer always reset him.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Maybe not those things specifically, but Peter is a genius, so I'm sure he could have figured out some options for her to use for self-defense. Heck, he could take stuff off of villains he defeats, and have an increasingly powerful super girlfriend as he goes along.

Peter may be a genius, but he's not multi-talented. At least in the time-frame we're talking about, his talents were mostly chemical in nature, and that was mostly the creation of his web. He has minor technical talents, which allowed him to come up with the webshooters. He also had very limited resources, and the idea of stealing from his enemies is flawed on both an ethical and pragmatic level. Ethically, it is obviously wrong for the hero to steal. Pragmatically, we have the statistics which show that gun-owners are more likely to harm themselves and/or their family than actually use it in self-defense. The tech of supervillains, probably way more complicated than a gun, would certainly entail a similar risk.

 

[FormerLurker]

Gwen died partly due to NOT knowing Peter's secret.



It would make them be more cautious. Compare MJ to Gwen.



Tell that to MJ, or Alfred Pennyworth, or any other civilian partner who knows the Hero's secret and lives regardless.



No, the creatively bankrupt part is clinging to outdated concepts. Like Peter Parker always being a photographer who can't manage his money. Whenever we get a decent growth for him, like when he was a High School Teacher, some hack writer who hated he wasn't a photographer always reset him.

This entire post is all about how you want Peter Parker to age with you, and fulfill your storytelling needs as you do. That's not the purpose of illustrated serialized narrative fiction, and is a prime indicator that you need to stop reading comic books.

Every comic book is someone's first, and the heroes presented therein need to be available to the new readers in the same way they have been to all the older ones. When you no longer get that, it's time for you to move on.

 

[Replica Picard]

the idea of stealing from his enemies is flawed on both an ethical and pragmatic level. Ethically, it is obviously wrong for the hero to steal.

I'll allow that the rest of what you're saying has merit, but this point I'm going to have to argue with: If you use something to try to kill/harm me, innocents, or other people I care about, and I can get hold of it, that thing is mine now and no longer belongs to you, and I'm not sorry.

 

[Christopher]

I'll allow that the rest of what you're saying has merit, but this point I'm going to have to argue with: If you use something to try to kill/harm me, innocents, or other people I care about, and I can get hold of it, that thing is mine now and no longer belongs to you, and I'm not sorry.

Except if it's used in the commission of a crime, it's evidence and should be in the possession of the authorities. Maybe when the trial is over its legal ownership could be determined, but if it's a dangerous weapon, it's more likely to be destroyed.


Then again, both Superman and Batman have traditionally been portrayed as collecting trophies of their various cases, including some dangerous items like a robotic dinosaur. And Superman routinely confiscates dangerous alien tech in his Fortress of Solitude, though since he's Superman, we presume he does it with the consent of the authorities as he's the only one who can safety contain it, or in some cases even get near it.

 

[JD]

Obviously, any truly independent superhero with a life or lives to protect would not want any government to share their most precious secret.

I actually agree on this point, governments are the last people I would want knowing superheroes identities.

Some make the laughable (and creatively bankrupt) argument that it is somehow "wrong" for superheroes to hide their costumed life from relatives and friends, but as comic history has illustrated in shocking cases, anyone knowing the hero's identity led to tragedy (Gwen Stacy, Iris West Allen, et al.). Being a superhero is not a high school club for giggles; it is the most dangerous of "professions" and being superheroes, their adversaries are usually of a level far beyond civilians' feeble ability to "protect" themselves against an attack of that kind.

There are plenty of real world dangerous jobs where the people in the lives know what they do, even if they don't know all of the details.

The idea that a hero's friends and in some cases, one barely known individual after another has any right to this information (they do not) or serve a practical purpose for their lives is ridiculous from an in-universe perspective and certainly a creative one.

If a significant person in my life is going to be constantly running out on me, and putting their life in danger, then I deserve to know why. At least they won't be constantly giving bullshit excuses, and I'll know they have a good reason for it.
If I found out the person I was married to/in a long term relationship was keeping something this huge from me without them telling me, that would sure as hell be the end of that relationship.
I don't really see where knowing or not knowing really puts them in a different amount of danger, as long as they are a part of the hero's life, they are going to be in danger. At least if they know the person is a hero, then they are aware of the danger. Leaving the person in potential danger, but not telling them why, is kind of a shitty way to treat a person you supposedly care about.

People don't reveal everything to everyone. Since I don't tell my friends all my secrets does that mean I have no right to have them in my life? O_o

It depends on if those secrets have a potential to get them killed.

 

[fireproof78]

It depends on if those secrets have a potential to get them killed.

Military does that all the time. Even with one of my coworkers we were not allowed to know anything about his military assignment and couldn't acknowledge we knew him for fear of danger.

That was weird.

 

[Christopher]

I actually agree on this point, governments are the last people I would want knowing superheroes identities.

Well, it depends on whether it's a trustworthy government or... what we have now. But really, as a rule, it's probably in a superhero's best interest to work with a government, whether local or federal, because as a state actor they'd have more legal protection for any damage or injury that resulted from their crimefighting. As a vigilante, they could be culpable for damages or subject to prosecution if their identities were then found out (and let's get real, it's not as easy to keep a secret as fiction often pretends), and it would give the state an incentive to find out. Better to get ahead of it and get state sanction going in.

Military does that all the time. Even with one of my coworkers we were not allowed to know anything about his military assignment and couldn't acknowledge we knew him for fear of danger.

Yeah, but at least you knew that he was in the military and that there was a reason for him to have secrets from you. He didn't operate under the pretense of being a hairdresser, say, and have to make excuses about urgent hairdressing emergencies as a cover for his military missions.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, but at least you knew that he was in the military and that there was a reason for him to have secrets from you. He didn't operate under the pretense of being a hairdresser, say, and have to make excuses about urgent hairdressing emergencies as a cover for his military missions.

That's fair. I still think secret identities have their place, but I see the points for both.

 

[Skipper]

From DragonFly and DragonFlyman #0 (a pastiche based on Batman '66)

 

[Replica Picard]

Except if it's used in the commission of a crime, it's evidence and should be in the possession of the authorities. Maybe when the trial is over its legal ownership could be determined, but if it's a dangerous weapon, it's more likely to be destroyed.


Then again, both Superman and Batman have traditionally been portrayed as collecting trophies of their various cases, including some dangerous items like a robotic dinosaur. And Superman routinely confiscates dangerous alien tech in his Fortress of Solitude, though since he's Superman, we presume he does it with the consent of the authorities as he's the only one who can safety contain it, or in some cases even get near it.

It isn't generally legal to be a costumed crime fighter in the first place, barring exceptions like the times Superman has been deputized by the President, or supergroups actually formed by their government, like ABBA. So taking it upon themselves to collect the implements of the people they stop fits right in. On "The Flash" they even have their own confinement cell.

And like you said, it may not be safe to leave some of the stuff in civilian, even police civilian, hands. Much better to confiscate it yourself and use it to build a super suit for Aunt May.

 

[Skipper]

If I can bring a real world example, in Italy we have the NOCS, the police tactical unit.

In public they have always to cover their face and they use code names to call each other.

Still their families do know what they do (not the details, obviously) because otherwise, well, it would be simply cruel.

By the way,

In 2017, NOCS revealed that a female operator, known as "Marta", become part of the operational unit of the department, one of the first cases in European law enforcement where a woman is recruited in a police-tactical unit

"Why did you say that name? Martha? Why did you say that name? WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?"

 

[arch101]

One of the great things about the Marvel films is that they really did away with secret identities- and it works! Makes their melodrama look kinda silly, in fact.

 

[Guy Gardener]

One of the great things about the Marvel films is that they really did away with secret identities- and it works! Makes their melodrama look kinda silly, in fact.

Hawkeye's name is not a big secret, but his family is a secret living on a farm in the middle of... Did his kids get home schooled?

 

[Nerys Myk]

One of the great things about the Marvel films is that they really did away with secret identities- and it works! Makes their melodrama look kinda silly, in fact.

The Spider-Man films are using it. Though I guess they are Marvel-adjacent.

 

[Anwar]

The Spider-Man films are using it. Though I guess they are Marvel-adjacent.

They did at least do away with his silly "Aunt May must never know!" BS. And have MJ outright say it wasn't hard to figure out.

I mean really, if Peter had told Harry and MJ in the first Raimi movie he'd have been saving himself a LOT of trouble. Harry would've known Peter didn't kill Norman all along and he'd have been with MJ the whole time.