I don't see how this suggestion makes any sense directly after complaining about rehashes.
Unpopular Trek opinions game
- Thread starter ED-209
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Clarification: that's related to the prior sentence. Instead of going for a 'movie' plot, go for an 'episode' plot. Stretch that out. Sprinkle it with eye candy. Delve into the ramifications more. The stakes don't have to be raised too much or at all, but maybe show a little more conflict. Churn that out as a movie.
Remember that TNG episode where there's two planets in a system and one planet produces a drug that they tout as a vaccine to another planet that produces the basics for survival, and they keep that planet hooked on? But they're slowly losing the capacity to actually ship the drug across the system, and the crew comes across the whole thing? Imagine if the conflict in that was padded out more. We see social ramifications on screen, Picard might actually make a more...reasoned decision (IIRC they just GTFO the system after shipping the last shipment of drugs to planet-basics without solving the underlying issue, and Planet-Drug maker forced Picard out with the Prime Directive but now Planet Basic can't ship Planet Drug-Maker any of their, well, basics even if they wanted to as the shipping capacity has degraded that far, e.g their only ship has seemingly exploded). You can have a sub plot about fixing their tech level, have LaForge work with a indig/crewman, have Crusher do something more, that stuff.
Of course one can't turn that episode into a movie, and one shouldn't turn any episode into a movie directly, but I would strongly suggest to make movies more along those lines: society has problem, scientific or cultural or both, crew comes along, decides what to do, and it gives the crew/main chars a chance to showcase their skills and solve the problem/overcome the obstacles they meet coming across the problem.
Since the NuTrek guys never got their show anyway, it also helps fill that gap.
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On the one hand I see your point. On the other, this feels like a very surface level analysis of the films and misses the character moments for the sake of focusing on familiar beats.
I mean TMP is just the Changeling but it impacted the characters differently.
Rom is comedy gold.
Hey, brother. Rom is the best comic relief character in all of Trek. The Ferengi cracks me up.
Hey, brother. Rom is the best comic relief character in all of Trek. The Ferengi cracks me up.
Unpopular Opinion (apparently): I like Discovery Season 2. Yes, this includes the second half. 
Well, you saw a lot more in that movie than I did, then. I found Into Darkness to be an aggressively dumb movie. I didn't see any character beats that weren't already done before in ST09 and TWOK, unless you count Carol Marcus inexplicably and gratuitously stripping down to her underwear as soon as she stepped into a shuttlecraft with Kirk as "a character beat."
Yeah, that's a surface level read at best.
I find it so odd when there is the complaint that Kirk basically repeated his arc in ID (he didn't but never mind that) and then there is the complaint he got to be captain too fast. Can't win for losing.
The last time they did that it was Insurrection and it stank to high heaven. So it would neither be "new" nor would it be a guaranty that it would make a good movie.
But wasn't that the biggest complaint people had about the TNG movies, that they felt more like drawn-out episodes with a movie budget?
No, just an opinion that's different than yours. I saw what they were going for. I just think they failed miserably.
I'm glad that you enjoyed STID. Please respect that I didn't and stop insisting that there's something I'm missing in it.
I respect that you didn't. I don't agree with the assessment that Carol in her underwear is a character beat. I find that a rather odd opinion and will call it out as such.
I can respect you and also find such statements extremely strange and surface level of a film about a character in their underwear.
But on the other end, Beyond was praised for feeling 'like old Trek'. TNG movies had a problem: fatigue. Ten years or so ('87 -'02) of being with the same crew. The movies, I would wager, didn't push the envelope far enough with what they could had done and felt a bit 2d, from GEN to FC to INS to NEM.
GEN: chained down by the old TOS crew, Pic has to fight a mad doctor trying to reach paradise.
FC: A borg episode, the crew follows them back to 2063 earth, meets cochrane, stops the Borg. Picard does actiony things.
INS: The Federation tries to coax a planet to give their medical sustenance that keeps them youthful, they have an ugly offshoot, Picard does a Kirk.
NEM: Picard faces his evil Romulan clone.
One thing starts to stick out to me: these are very Picard-centric movies. Data has a fit in INS and is killed off in NEM. Geordie has a bit of the spotlight in GEN. FC almost cuts out the crew, again it's Picard's show with a second show with Worf. I think that's the problem.
As I mused on before, the movies should have the main three or five or six, whatever it'll be, actually contributing to the movie, solving a subplot relevant to themselves and their experience, (this is tricky, I admit, it's hard to have more than two subplots in tandem with the main plot, and works more with longer works - so keep it to the main three+redshirts). Add that to an expanded plot that looks a bit more below the hood than those movies did at the underlying issue, might work better.
Especially with the younger NuTrek crew, feeling like an episode won't go against them: we haven't seen them for the better part of a decade, just every few years. And by now they're a bit older, have a few more off-screen missions under their belt, they can mix that up.
And an apping of TWOK. FC succesfully played with similar tropes (including a Moby Dick reference). But, NEM is more of an aping of TWOK, with Picard facing down his supposed dark mirror and Data making the ultimate sacrifice while not really providing a satisfactory conclusion.
I truly don't think it is oversaturation. I think you are right that they are very Picard-centric, and lack more of an ensemble feel, save for some small bits here and there. So, that very centric view results in people being not wanting to continue forward. If they did a different a much more challenging film and theme then it wouldn't have been a problem.
But, as it stands, I think they focused on one element (Picard) while downplaying the rest.
In general I think I agree. In FC at least, there was this excuse that Picard had had the deepest confrontation of all with the Borg before, so it's logical he would be the protagonist. Still, the story could have been crafted in such a way that it would have been slightly more of an ensemble show.
More in general, I think during TNG's run it gradually became clear that Data, Picard and Worf were the "strong' characters, around whom many episodes were centered (more than on, say, Crusher). The movies continued with that skewed balance and made it a little more extreme.
Personally I always disliked Star Trek movies for feeling too much like long episodes (if I'm completely honest, there isn't a single Star Trek movie which I would call a good movie when measured against other, non-Star Trek movies. I'd just call them good Star Trek movies when compared to other Star Trek movies) but that's just different opinions :-)
Though I seriously wonder whether a standard movie lenght would be enough to *properly* introduce an alien culture and make us care about them enough to well, care whether their problem gets solved, then introduce a problem and then still do enough character stuff with, well, however many characters from the regular crew the movie wants to focus on. And you'd probably also need at least one character form that alien world to give them a representative...
I mean I loved how DS9 explored Bajor, the Ferengi, the Dominon, but that was 7 seasons, they had time to develop everything.
What would you think of a mini-series approach where you get a block of 5-6 episodes every couple of years?
That was sarcasm, not my genuine opinion. I put the words "character beat" in quotes. The words "inexplicable and gratuitous" are what reflect my real feelings on that scene.
Ah. I missed the sarcasm.
The biggest Khan reference that managed to overshadow pretty much everything else.
I can't believe I didn't mention this before! I like "The Omega Glory" (TOS).
If how much I like Discovery wasn't enough to do me in, I'm sure this will.
If how much I like Discovery wasn't enough to do me in, I'm sure this will.
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