Commander Ellen Landry.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x08 - "Broken Pieces"
- Thread starter pst
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That character was just awful. How on earth did she pass anything?
The idea that this is all 'the pendulum swinging TOO FAR in the other direction' is just ridiculous, even moreso when the criticism is based on a series that is literally starring one of the oldest whitest men currently in Hollywood.
First of all, in order for this to be just 'flipping' what was done wrong in the past we would have to live in a world where the vast majority of all shows and movies are primarily starring women and, in a great many cases, almost exclusively starring women with only one or two token male characters in the main cast. We don't and we never have and we are not likely to any time soon. *Men still dominate most casts, and a good chunk of those which they don't are not actually dominated by women.*
Secondly, there is nothing wrong with individual stories, fictional groups, even entire series leaning more one way or the other. The ideal world is not a world where every cast is exactly 50/50 gender split. The ideal world is when all possible gender splits are equally valid and equally common across Hollywood so that we see BOTH groups that are all men and groups that are all women and every possible mix in between.
Thirdly, Star Trek Picard stars (in order of the credits):
Patrick Stewart
Allison Pill
Isa Briones
Evan Evagora
Michelle Hurd
(With) Santiago Cabrera
Fourthly, the Qowat Milat and the Zhat Vash are not the central groups of this series, and *neither* of them is exclusively female. Even the explanation of the Zhat Vash being matriarchal is not actually textual in the series, meaning it could be just as easily upturned by some future story as the old concept of Romulus and Remus as twin homeworlds of the Romulan Empire. And this claim that only women are criticizing Picard on screen is yet another blatant falsehood, made even more disgusting by the idea that Elnor 'doesn't count' because he's sensitive and was raised by women. (Though I certainly do wonder why exactly Rios and Riker somehow don't count, either. Or Picard's old doctor buddy.)
First of all, in order for this to be just 'flipping' what was done wrong in the past we would have to live in a world where the vast majority of all shows and movies are primarily starring women and, in a great many cases, almost exclusively starring women with only one or two token male characters in the main cast. We don't and we never have and we are not likely to any time soon. *Men still dominate most casts, and a good chunk of those which they don't are not actually dominated by women.*
Secondly, there is nothing wrong with individual stories, fictional groups, even entire series leaning more one way or the other. The ideal world is not a world where every cast is exactly 50/50 gender split. The ideal world is when all possible gender splits are equally valid and equally common across Hollywood so that we see BOTH groups that are all men and groups that are all women and every possible mix in between.
Thirdly, Star Trek Picard stars (in order of the credits):
Patrick Stewart
Allison Pill
Isa Briones
Evan Evagora
Michelle Hurd
(With) Santiago Cabrera
Fourthly, the Qowat Milat and the Zhat Vash are not the central groups of this series, and *neither* of them is exclusively female. Even the explanation of the Zhat Vash being matriarchal is not actually textual in the series, meaning it could be just as easily upturned by some future story as the old concept of Romulus and Remus as twin homeworlds of the Romulan Empire. And this claim that only women are criticizing Picard on screen is yet another blatant falsehood, made even more disgusting by the idea that Elnor 'doesn't count' because he's sensitive and was raised by women. (Though I certainly do wonder why exactly Rios and Riker somehow don't count, either. Or Picard's old doctor buddy.)
I also love this whole notion that all these characters not adhering 100% to some outdated gender stereotypes of rock-hard machismo is somehow an intentional plot to undermine masculinity. So despite a more passive husband constantly teased by a fiery and assertive wife being an age-old character stereotype that appears in literally every sitcom ever produced, it's now apparently just CBS pandering to the woke crowd and erasing real men. Despite the fact that Zhaban is an ex-Tal Shiar agent who is more than capable of killing a house full of armed people in body armor who attack him unprepared. But because his marriage has that classic sitcom dynamic, he suddenly doesn't count as a male character. Elnor is an assassin who effortlessly mows through a room full of Romulan guards, but because of his childlike emotionality, he suddenly doesn't count as a male character. And for some reason, the presence of Rios is not enough, despite his very masculine penchant of playing up his manliness to anyone in the general vicinity, suppressing his feelings and pretending everything's alright until he breaks down, playing futsal and drinking aguardiente from the bottle, not to mention his carpet of virility and multiple tattoos. Oh, and of course Riker, who seems to portray every single dad stereotype imaginable in his old age.
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Even Kirk cried and asked other men to help him and that was in a series shot and aired more than 50 years ago. Incels and men with fragile masculinity are always going to complain about how men are portrayed in series and movies because that's what whiny, insecure misoginysts do.
It's just stupid.
I don't believe this is a case of "two wrongs don't make a right." I do believe the pendulum has swung in the direction of having more emphasis on female characters and away from traditional gender role portrayals, but that in of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Modern shows, especially aged ones like Star Trek, need to switch things up to make the material fresh for modern audiences. While I like the character of Elnor I'm also critical of his portrayal in certain aspects. Yet, him being more sensitive, which I'm assuming is partially due to the fact that he was raised by all women, makes the character unique. It's a change from the stoic bad ass swordsman who decapitates his enemies without hesitation.
When he went to hug Seven, it went against the average viewers expectations, yet it fit for the character.
The name "Beautiful Flower" for the male synth could be continuing the theme of shaking up traditional ideas of how we view gender. I myself thought it was interesting in a good way that the male synth had this name. Again, it was unexpected since he was a male and his sister had a more normal traditional, feminine name, but it makes sense. There's already this theme of flowers and names starting with Dahj's origin of her name. And it makes the story more tragic that this delightful, artistic being named "Beautiful Flower" was murdered. It doesn't have quite the same impact if his name had just been something like "Jacub."
But you're ignoring what the show creator said. Yes, it could be changed in the future, but it provides a particular explanation for why Oh had an all female group in that particular scene. Now I see what they were possibly going for, which in of itself isn't a bad thing.
I never said that only women are criticizing Picard. I specifically mentioned the Romulan who harshly lectured Picard and was killed by Elnor.
I dono't recall Riker lecturing Picard. Troi was going at him with some tough love and Riker thought she went too far and even exclaimed "Imzadi!" I do remember Riker giving him some advice though.
Who said these two characters don't count as male characters?
That's funny because I thought Rios was introduced in the most cliched way possible, the stereotypical macho he-man, even going as far as to refuse medical treatment while chomping on a cigar. As a Latino I was also disappointed that they depict the one prominent Latino or Mexican guy drinking aguardiente out the bottle. I remember watching my T2: Judgment Day as a kid and my dad getting upset that the one Mexican guy we see on screen is shown drinking tequila (what else would a Mexican drink, right?) straight out the bottle.
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And Picard drinks wine.
How many white men do we see in Star Trek compared to the number of Latinos? It's not really comparable. Is drinking wine a white stereotype? Does Picard drink straight out the bottle while sitting in the Captain's chair?
Not only that, but when I think of Picard drinking, first thing that comes to mind is Earl Grey tea.
Heck, look at THE WRATH OF KHAN. Admiral Kirk just happens to be commanding a training cruise at the same time and vicinity that his old enemy, Khan, goes after a top-secret Genesis Device that just happens to have been designed by Kirk's former lover and his long-lost, hitherto-unmentioned son!
That's a stretch worthy of a Victorian novel, but it doesn't hurt KHAN one bit. Still the best STAR TREK movie ever.
I think drinking is a male stereotype.
Safe money on Jurati or someone having bit of Data brain dust (maybe from the stuff transferred to B4) to stick in that body before Often Wrong’s dodgy heir gets to Graves his head into it. Then android Jesus will save the day. (They have carefully lifted bits from Cold Equations in this series, this episode in particular with its conversations about ‘the logic of sacrifice’ practically flag waving... and we know DSC already lifted from Mack too.)
This is all conjecture, and would be incredibly cheesy...but I’m ok with that.
It’s getting a bit choppy. This episode was very oddly edited and directed tbh (random nanosecond dramatic drone shot for..no reason) and why can you kill synthetic life by jabbing it in the eye? (Though that was the first sign that Soong is as much of a mess as his ancestors.)
I have hesitant money on Picards condition being something left by the Borg and a fix coming from the XBs (unless all the talk of season 2 is porkies and he dies next week)
I gave it a ten, with my only other real criticism being to do with trying to cram perhaps a little too much into the spaces between leading to confusion for some as to how the dots join. A bit rushed.
As to those worrying about the flowers....they don’t have to reach escape velocity. Only escape height, when you thing about it. My head doesn’t reach escape velocity when I stand up, neither does yours, and we are not all crawling on the floor or putting up skyscrapers with rockets.
This is all conjecture, and would be incredibly cheesy...but I’m ok with that.
It’s getting a bit choppy. This episode was very oddly edited and directed tbh (random nanosecond dramatic drone shot for..no reason) and why can you kill synthetic life by jabbing it in the eye? (Though that was the first sign that Soong is as much of a mess as his ancestors.)
I have hesitant money on Picards condition being something left by the Borg and a fix coming from the XBs (unless all the talk of season 2 is porkies and he dies next week)
I gave it a ten, with my only other real criticism being to do with trying to cram perhaps a little too much into the spaces between leading to confusion for some as to how the dots join. A bit rushed.
As to those worrying about the flowers....they don’t have to reach escape velocity. Only escape height, when you thing about it. My head doesn’t reach escape velocity when I stand up, neither does yours, and we are not all crawling on the floor or putting up skyscrapers with rockets.
I am reminded of the drinking discussions between the leads of Cracker and Prime Suspect many years ago, in Prime Cracker.
Drinking/Substance abuse isn’t a male stereotype, it’s a ‘broken person’ stereotype, even in Trek.
Drinking and Domestic Abuse would be lazy Male stereotype 101 this century, but we’ve had none of that in this show.
Disagree, completely. Is Scotty supposed to be broken? Kirk with the Romulan Ale and Bones? Picard and his wine? Klingons and blood wine? Jack Sparrow and rum? Never mind the countless sitcoms where the male half of a male/female duo is immediately going for a beer/liquor or to the bar?
I don't see this "broken person" stereotype with just drinking. It certainly could be, as evidenced by Raffi but it isn't the only part of that stereotype.
There’s ‘occasional glass’ then ‘drink to forget’ as in real life. And I think Jack Sparrow was indeed a little broken, but that was comedy not a drama. Picard himself ended up on the guzzle to get over his assimilation, but didn’t depend on it...but we do most often see him drink in sadness. Scotty drank in sadness in Relics too. Now...those are just a hint of ‘Dutch courage’ scenarios. These people are a bit more broken. The drinking and smoking is just part of the shorthand for snapped starfleet.
Though I am used to British Dramas, where the ladies also neck it back a bit.
Yeah, I just see it differently. I think drinking is a male stereotype, and can be used as shorthand for a lot of things, not just brokeness.
After three fucking years, I am thoroughly sick and tired of the misandry conspiracy theories.
Give it up.
Give it up.
It's there for all to see, on this show and especially, Discovery. Airiam gets a full episode to herself, Detmer gets plenty of screen time, Owo goes on an away mission. Rhys and Bryce? Absolutely nothing. Must be their "tiny male brains" as the script for one episode put it.
Thankfully it's not as bad on Picard. It would be nice to see a strong male Starfleet officer for a change though. Or not have scrawny weak-looking Romulans cower in fear as Narissa takes their guns and orders them to follow her.
Was that dialogue in the actual episode?
To be fair, what strong female Starfleet officers do we see in PIC? Of the good guys, the only uniformed Starfleet officer we see, who's a good guy is Clancy.
On the Sirena, we get two strong former Starfleet officers, Raffi and Rios. So it's balanced out.
I noticed that too. I guess they wanted to play up her intimidation by having the Romulan soldier/officer look so scared. I don't think it was necessary though, as the actress playing Narissa already exudes an air of intimidation, and has demonstrated to be extremely capable and deadly. The way it's played it detracts from the reputation of the Romulans and/or their organization.
