Spoilers Let’s talk about the destruction of Trek utopia…

[Nightdiamond]

I'd bet money we're not going to see or hear about Section 31 at all in Picard. Primarily because they were just on Discovery, they're getting their own series, and it's too easy to use them as a scapegoat in this series. I also think this show wants to look squarely at the shortcomings of Starfleet itself, by people who are now outside of it. And besides everything else, the Zhat Vash already fill the role S31 would've here. So Section 31 in Picard would be redundant.

Discovery's portrayal of Section 31 was awful, I don't want Picard to have anything to do with S31 other than perhaps a name. DS9 was the first and last time we should have heard of them, not everything is down to S31, nor are they all seeing and all powerful as people seem to think.

I always thought the main point of Section 31 was that hardly anyone knew about them in the first place. Now, almost every show wants to show them in plain view. So ITD and Discovery had them too.

It's really overdone. The first few times in DS9 were interesting, but constantly showing them is like what happened with the Borg on Voyager.

 

[Lord Garth]

It took me decades, but now I understand why VOY and ENT went in the direction they did after DS9. It all makes sense in a way that I wish it didn't.

EDIT: Unrelated to the immediately above post or Section 31 in particular. I just mean this in general.

 

[fireproof78]

I do not find S31 as off putting as others do, for a variety of reasons. One, I think that they talk very highly of themselves, while failing to realize what their power actually is.

 

[Lynx]

Bullshit.

You have to look for it, but trust me the 60s and 70s were mired in depression and doom and gloom too. They just found ways to survive.

What people don't know is that quality of living has improved in the overall world, among other positives. But, happiness doesn't fall in one's lap. One does need to seek it out.

And, no, I don't want escapism anymore. Sick to death of it. Escapism never improved my depression or my anxiety.

What's been destroyed, exactly? Did TNG Klingons become DSC Klingons and I didn't notice? What has been destroyed?

I prefer escapism before doom-and-gloom because escapism makes me feel better and geared up for the daily battles.

As for the 60's and 70's, the ways to survive was far more better than we have today because those ways produced musical masterpieces and movies and TV-series which were brilliant.

What's been destroyed? The Klingons have been turned from Klingons to evli mutant ninja turtles, Vulcan and Romulus have been destroyed, the meaningless slaighter of Icheb (no, he was no favorite of mine but I find his death unnecessary and the torture scene very unnecssary) and worst of all, Picard seems to have been transported to the 2010's where everything is doom-and-gloom. Now I just wait for him to catch the Microna virus (a development of Corona) as well.

It's actually ironic. I've been waiting for years for a return to the 24th century in a series and when we finally got it, then it turns out to be just another doom-and-gloom series, the sort of what I do everything to avoid.

 

[Lynx]

Bull Shit.
How old were you in the 60s and 70s? There was a lot of crap back then. Just as much as there is now.
It wasn't all Woodstock and love ins either.

Well, the music was far, far better than the crap we have today. Not even heavy metal is fun anymore.

Back then they had Hendrix, Cream and Led Zeppelin. Now they have BRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUHHHHHHHH!

Not to mention Justin Bieber, Katy Perry and all that adapted crap.

Plus rap and hiphop. I can't stand it.

Back then they had TOS. Now they have Discovery.

 

[flandry84]

/\

/\/\This.
If I wanted grim and gritty I would just watch the news.
I remember at the end of every TOS episode when Jim would say “Ahead warp factor one” I wanted to go with them.
I would run a mile from Picard’s universe.

 

[Lord Garth]

/\/\This.
If I wanted grim and gritty I would just watch the news.

The news is more like bad comedy. The current crisis excepted.

 

[fireproof78]

What's been destroyed? The Klingons have been turned from Klingons to evli mutant ninja turtles,

That's not destruction.

Vulcan and Romulus have been destroyed

What happened to Vulcan? Romulus I get, though they are coming back together.

and worst of all, Picard seems to have been transported to the 2010's where everything is doom-and-gloom.

The Federation endured multiple threats from the Borg, the Dominion, the Romulans and other difficulties. Art reflects life. How did you expect them to handle it?

Hell, TOS didn't get there through peace and happiness. There was a WW3 between the 60s and TOS. O_o

 

[flandry84]

The news is more like bad comedy. The current crisis excepted.

Comedy or tragedy.
I NEED Trek right now.

 

[fireproof78]

Comedy or tragedy.
I NEED Trek right now.

Pretty sure its still streaming.

*checks streaming services*

Yup.

 

[Lynx]

That's not destruction.

What happened to Vulcan? Romulus I get, though they are coming back together.


The Federation endured multiple threats from the Borg, the Dominion, the Romulans and other difficulties. Art reflects life. How did you expect them to handle it?

Hell, TOS didn't get there through peace and happiness. There was a WW3 between the 60s and TOS. O_o

The difference is that the adventures in TOS, TNG, VOY and even DS9 wasn't showed in such dark colors as everything is in the current movies and series (not only in Star trek, I must point out). There were always hope and a chance that the "good side" would be victorious. Now it's mostly that hopeless scenario, so typical for the 2010's.

And I do think that they have ruined the Klingons. I can't stand those Ninja Turtles we see in Discovery.

 

[fireproof78]

The difference is that the adventures in TOS, TNG, VOY and even DS9 wasn't showed in such dark colors as everything is in the current movies and series (not only in Star trek, I must point out). There were always hope and a chance that the "good side" would be victorious. Now it's mostly that hopeless scenario, so typical for the 2010's.

I still have hope, and thus far the good guys have won.

And I do think that they have ruined the Klingons. I can't stand those Ninja Turtles we see in Discovery.

Redesigining =/= destruction. If you can't stand them that's fine. Personally, I can't stand the Klingons in TMP but that's neither here nor there. But, they didn't ruin anything. The Klingons that people (supposedly) love still exist. And I can love the new Klingons just as well.

I also can't stand the Borg. Are they ruined? Are they destroyed? The hyperbole is a little thick for me.

 

[Midquest]

The difference is that the adventures in TOS, TNG, VOY and even DS9 wasn't showed in such dark colors as everything is in the current movies and series (not only in Star trek, I must point out). There were always hope and a chance that the "good side" would be victorious. Now it's mostly that hopeless scenario, so typical for the 2010's.

When has the good side not prevailed in Discovery and Picard? Don't both seasons of Disco end with good triumphing and a general reassertion of Trekkian values? Isn't the trajectory of Picard, too, toward good prevailing? I just can't think of a single significant narrative that ended without hope.

 

[fireproof78]

When has the good side not prevailed in Discovery and Picard? Don't both seasons of Disco end with good triumphing and a general reassertion of Trekkian values? Isn't the trajectory of Picard, too, toward good prevailing? I just can't think of a single significant narrative that ended without hope.

Precisely so.

Regardless of what one things about the aesthetic design (hey, that's up to each individual), the stories have moved in the general Trek direction of optimism, the good guys winning and more negative aspects shunned or pushed away.

But, one aspect I have noted with the recent shows is that they are more willing to sit in ambiguity for a time, rather than immediately have neat and tidy answers at the end. That appears to be uncomfortable for some facets of the audience because it is decidingly different from TOS, TNG or VOY.

 

[Lord Garth]

Not to mention Justin Bieber, Katy Perry and all that adapted crap.

Yeah Yeah Yeahs, MGMT, Graffiti6, Metric... that's some of the newer stuff I listen to (meaning from 2006 to Present Day), though I prefer '80s music. I'd say my music listening is generally two-thirds '80s with the rest being from the '60s, '70s, '90s, and "Today". But, yes, "today" is included. It doesn't all suck.

There's a ton of good music out there now. Just not the type you only seem to notice because it's on terrestrial radio or whatever the kids are into.

 

[Lt.Smokey]

I prefer escapism before doom-and-gloom because escapism makes me feel better and geared up for the daily battles.

As for the 60's and 70's, the ways to survive was far more better than we have today because those ways produced musical masterpieces and movies and TV-series which were brilliant.

What's been destroyed? The Klingons have been turned from Klingons to evli mutant ninja turtles, Vulcan and Romulus have been destroyed, the meaningless slaighter of Icheb (no, he was no favorite of mine but I find his death unnecessary and the torture scene very unnecssary) and worst of all, Picard seems to have been transported to the 2010's where everything is doom-and-gloom. Now I just wait for him to catch the Microna virus (a development of Corona) as well.

It's actually ironic. I've been waiting for years for a return to the 24th century in a series and when we finally got it, then it turns out to be just another doom-and-gloom series, the sort of what I do everything to avoid.

I broadly agree with you about the state of current entertainment, which is why I dont watch many current shows. But these writers could have made it a whole lot darker. This is not that gloomy by current standards. And if I didn't think this was headed toward a brighter end, I wouldn't watch. But I think it will.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Honestly, even the day to day negotiations of politics could be considered "nasty stuff" that our heroes never have to deal with. Kirk or Picard fly off while Federation ambassadors deal with the fine print.

Regardless of what one thinks of Section 31, their existence doesn't automatically make Star Trek dystopian.

The fact that Picard deals with uncomfortable possibilities of Starfleet deciding not to spend resources on a rescue and the outcome that comes from it is not dystopian. It is a part of hard decisions of life that, apparently, Trek has spared its precious viewers from.

Doesn’t A Private Little War have a down beat ending where Kirk is forced to perpetuate a war?

 

[fireproof78]

Doesn’t A Private Little War have a down beat ending where Kirk is forced to perpetuate a war?

Yup. Kirk basically feels forced to arm Tyree's people in the face of Klingon backed aggression.

 

[AlanC9]

The difference is that the adventures in TOS, TNG, VOY and even DS9 wasn't showed in such dark colors as everything is in the current movies and series (not only in Star trek, I must point out). There were always hope and a chance that the "good side" would be victorious. Now it's mostly that hopeless scenario, so typical for the 2010's.

As written, this makes no sense at all. I get that you're trying to express something, but what you're actually ending up writing is simply not true.

 

[Nerys Myk]

L

Well, the music was far, far better than the crap we have today. Not even heavy metal is fun anymore.

Back then they had Hendrix, Cream and Led Zeppelin. Now they have BRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUHHHHHHHH!

Not to mention Justin Bieber, Katy Perry and all that adapted crap.

Plus rap and hiphop. I can't stand it.

Back then they had TOS. Now they have Discovery.

You must spend a lot of time writing comments on YouTube.
What is “BRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUHHHHHHHH”?

You need to mix it up. Maybe toss in a Lady Gaga every other post. Or find a artist who’s a little more recent.