Yesterday was the 30th Anniversary of the first airing of "The Offspring(TNG)." What a poignant and happy confluence of Trek events. On one hand we have Data's first daughter. On the other we have one of his other daughters.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x08 - "Broken Pieces"
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Soji: Data loved you.
Picard:
Me:
Picard: Powerful tools!! Openness, optimism, a spirit of curiosity!
Rios:
Me:
It was a Data-type android that the Zhat Vash saw in the old vision.
I saw that immediately!
It must either have profound meaning, or he's just a placeholder cause the VFX weren't ready XD
Any small imbalance destabilizes it, though. And how can the planet remain intact, or how can anything live on the surface when there are 8 suns around?
We don't want apologies. We want squadrons.My apologies for asking a legit question to a strange interpretation of things that transpired in the episode.
Now delete that entire personal log! All of it! Not just this entry! XD
Correct.
Correct again, because he was one Android. Perhaps things would have been different had Lal survived. Maybe they were actively hunting Lore who was a greater threat. Either way Data was a starfleet officer on the Federation flagship, any attempt on his life would have lead to Picard and Starfleet hunting down those responsible eventually revealing the Zhat Vash and ending their organisation.
Data's death clearly didn't stop the Federation from continuing to create synthetic life so if they had taken out Data and been discovered, the Zhat Vash would not be around to prevent their prophecised Synth apocalypse. Also, It was stated in a previous episode that the Zhat Vash had agents in all of the various powers of the Alpha Quadrant. So they weren't just waiting for the Federation to do something, they were waiting and watching for any and all signs of the threshold being broken.
The origin of the synths is still up for debate. The revelation that there was a third android that looked like Soji and Dahj, is evidence that the Synthetics were not created by Maddox. The Fractal neuronic cloning proposed by Maddox would specifically create twins not triplets or quadruplets. It's also been stated a couple of times that Soji being Data's daughter is Picards belief. Granted this is based on the painting titled Daughter by Data. But the title of the painting doesn't necessarily mean that Soji/dahj is Data's daughter. Maybe her line are called 'The Daughters' and the male androids are 'The Sons' Maybe Data is the result of the synth planet and not the other way around. Perhaps Noonien soong found it, tried to recreate what he found. Maybe the Zhat Vash didn't kill Data because they hoped he would lead them to the planet?
The Zhat Vash are like the rumours of a real world Illuminati and other secret societies. Laris said she heard about from a drunk Tal Shiar handler. The context of that conversation is unknown and we have no idea whether the handler believed in the Zhat Vash or was doing the tal shiar equivalent of telling scary ghost stories to rattle a new recruit. Maybe the Zhat Vash were under surveillance from the Tal Shiar but were too crazy and culty to be taken seriously. In regards to how the secret would make you go insane, my guess is that there is an emotional and psychological component to the Admonition. It's sole purpose is to make cultures feel so much fear and torment that they don't create synthetic life. Think about your worst way to die then multiply that feeling of fear by 1000 and you probably have what the Zhat Vash initiates experienced
This episode is astonishing. Generous, big-hearted, and never less than completely compelling. Gosh.
And then there's Lore which they did nothing about. Giving Lore's outlaw nature and status; you think someone in the That Vash would have made a move to capture/use/or destroy him.
Then there's also the fact that in "Star Trek: Nemesis", the Zaht Vash allowed the Android B4 to be created by Romulans.
B4 was created by Noonien Soong not the Romulans. He was soong's first attempt at an android.
That was a 9, with it just being a minor step down from last week, and that was only because I wasn't nearly in tears at times throughout hearing about Kestra's brother. 
There's still so much happening. Seven taking control of the Borg was a wonder to behold.
I loved seeing all the Rios holograms interacting - the engineering one with the Scottish accent was a blast!
I also loved hearing more about his past with the captain he considered to be a father, and his girlfriend being murdered was very sad.
Looking forward to next week and seeing how seeing the Synth homeworld will play out.
There's still so much happening. Seven taking control of the Borg was a wonder to behold.
I loved seeing all the Rios holograms interacting - the engineering one with the Scottish accent was a blast!
I also loved hearing more about his past with the captain he considered to be a father, and his girlfriend being murdered was very sad.Looking forward to next week and seeing how seeing the Synth homeworld will play out.
Hell that's even worse then. The Zhat Vash then allowed Romulans to perform research on and modify an existing synthetic life form. B4 was used by the Romulans to both bring Picard to Romulus and download data from the 1701-D's main computer.
Even worse: it was a plan thought up by the current Romulan Leader at the time; yet again, the Zhat Vash sat back and did nothing.
Okay, we got some interesting revelations in this episode. I'm not entirely sure I'm following everything, but it seems like once upon a time there was a civilization that was destroyed by some sort of hyperintelligence who polices the galaxy looking for societies who develop AI and obliterates them for unknown reasons. Some Romulans came upon the ruins of this civilization and had fear and paranoia and violent CGI implanted in their noggins by an alien mind implanter. They then became the Jack Flash, a cult dedicated to the eradication of AI, not necessarily because they dislike AI, although the Rommie Twins sure seem to, but because they want the policing hyperintelligence to not come and obliterate them. Am I close? Anyway, it's an interesting SF idea on a grand scale, and it kind of reminds me of the Monolith builders in Clarke's Odyssey series-- who, by the way, were able to make stars go supernova when they wanted to obliterate someone.
Aside from that, this episode had lots of great character stuff going on. Rios finally got his turn in the spotlight and we found out the whole story behind that tragedy he alluded to a while back. And a dark story it was, involving an encounter with yet another version of Soji and an execution ordered by Commodore Oh, leading to his ultimate suicide-- for which Rios carries some guilt, because he gave him a hard time. This ties in to the AI plotline, but raises more questions. How did Oh recognize the other Soji? Who was with the other Soji? Was he an AI, too? Why did he have a Hippie name? Did Maddox build him as well as the Soji series? Or did Maddox find a planet of AIs who took him in and custom built androids for him? Does this android planet have any connection to other android-related planets that we've seen, like Mudd's planet or Roger Korby's planet?
We also got some great scenes featuring Rios' holographic avatars. Since the beginning, this multiple-hologram idea has been one of my favorite elements of the show, one of the things that really felt the most Trekkish, so I loved them getting the spotlight. Especially when they were all in the same room and Raffi was trying to ply them for information.
And it looks like Soji has been activated by events in this episode and really wants to go home, and became the latest in a long line of androids to commandeer a starship and take it to-- well, nowhere, because Rios outsmarted her with his lullaby lockout. We've now gotten glimpses into what made both Raffi and Rios formidable Starfleet officers before they became broken, and why they deserve to be on Picard's crew.
Oh, yeah, Picard is a part of this show, too, and he was in top form here. Stern and dismayed with an outed Agnes, fatherly and persuasive with Soji (who told him that Data loved him), collegial with his fellow officer Rios, assertive yet open minded with Raffi-- and he convinced Clancy to send the fleet, even if she did tell him to shut the fuck up again. And we got a couple of those classic Picard speeches about optimism and fighting back against fear that we love him for. In particular, his acknowledgement that the Federation did fail its own values by falling into Oh's trap of fear-mongering is the message for the current generation that this show needs to send to validate this Dark Federation storyline.
And meanwhile, back on the cube, Seven came to the rescue and got a big hug from Elfwich. He's such a lovable little berserker. But my favorite moment, of course, was Seven becoming the Borg Queen for a minute. I once had an idea for a mixed-cast grand finale for 24th century Trek that involved Seven assimilating the Queen and taking over as a benign leader, ultimately disbanding the Collective. This wasn't quite that yet, but it kind of plants the seed of that possibility.
All in all, this episode was packed with great character moments and interesting plot developments and Trekkish themes-- I'd say it's easily the best episode of the series yet.
Aside from that, this episode had lots of great character stuff going on. Rios finally got his turn in the spotlight and we found out the whole story behind that tragedy he alluded to a while back. And a dark story it was, involving an encounter with yet another version of Soji and an execution ordered by Commodore Oh, leading to his ultimate suicide-- for which Rios carries some guilt, because he gave him a hard time. This ties in to the AI plotline, but raises more questions. How did Oh recognize the other Soji? Who was with the other Soji? Was he an AI, too? Why did he have a Hippie name? Did Maddox build him as well as the Soji series? Or did Maddox find a planet of AIs who took him in and custom built androids for him? Does this android planet have any connection to other android-related planets that we've seen, like Mudd's planet or Roger Korby's planet?
We also got some great scenes featuring Rios' holographic avatars. Since the beginning, this multiple-hologram idea has been one of my favorite elements of the show, one of the things that really felt the most Trekkish, so I loved them getting the spotlight. Especially when they were all in the same room and Raffi was trying to ply them for information.
And it looks like Soji has been activated by events in this episode and really wants to go home, and became the latest in a long line of androids to commandeer a starship and take it to-- well, nowhere, because Rios outsmarted her with his lullaby lockout. We've now gotten glimpses into what made both Raffi and Rios formidable Starfleet officers before they became broken, and why they deserve to be on Picard's crew.
Oh, yeah, Picard is a part of this show, too, and he was in top form here. Stern and dismayed with an outed Agnes, fatherly and persuasive with Soji (who told him that Data loved him), collegial with his fellow officer Rios, assertive yet open minded with Raffi-- and he convinced Clancy to send the fleet, even if she did tell him to shut the fuck up again.
And we got a couple of those classic Picard speeches about optimism and fighting back against fear that we love him for. In particular, his acknowledgement that the Federation did fail its own values by falling into Oh's trap of fear-mongering is the message for the current generation that this show needs to send to validate this Dark Federation storyline.And meanwhile, back on the cube, Seven came to the rescue and got a big hug from Elfwich. He's such a lovable little berserker. But my favorite moment, of course, was Seven becoming the Borg Queen for a minute. I once had an idea for a mixed-cast grand finale for 24th century Trek that involved Seven assimilating the Queen and taking over as a benign leader, ultimately disbanding the Collective. This wasn't quite that yet, but it kind of plants the seed of that possibility.
All in all, this episode was packed with great character moments and interesting plot developments and Trekkish themes-- I'd say it's easily the best episode of the series yet.
Why can't they go after both?
They could have made it look like an accident. They could have pretended to be assassinating Picard, or Riker, or Worf, or sent a Romulan defector.
And any attempt by them risks revealing the Zhat Vash and possibly ending their organization as we're seeing now that Raffi and Picard on the case.
They couldn't have known that. If they take out Data completely, they would have assumed that the secret would have been lost. That was what Maddox and Starfleet was arguing when trying to take ownership of Data and later Lal. If one of them dies while serving on a starship, they might not ever be able to recreate Data.
Again, why would they assume they're going to be discovered. Why infiltrate Starfleet before the mass production of synthetics? They might get found out right, and end the Zhat Vash.
So instead they waited and waited and waited, till synths were mass produced and now it's *this* close to the apocalypse happening. AND they've been found out.
And yet they ignored Data, couldn't find Lore, and had possession of B4 but used him merely as a lure for Picard. And waited till they mass produced synths. And till the Destroyer and her sister were created. And till a whole entire planet was full of them.
If they killed Data and Maddox early on, no Destroyer.
And the synths working on Mars weren't sentient.
Unless we're going to find out that they WERE sentient but it was being suppressed, which makes the unknowing Federation slave holders, and makes the people calling them plastic people, racists.
I'm pretty sure we're going to get Brent Spiner sans Data makeup on the planet as part of a cliffhanger, or saved for Season 2.
She knew enough that the secret involved a hatred of synthetics and that the secret drives you insane, and that the Zhat Vash existed. They're afraid that actually doing something to prevent the apocalypse will reveal them, but apparently Tal Shiars are drunkenly telling people about the insane knowledge and the hatred of synthetics. Oopsie.
I'm sure that's what it's supposed to be like, but this is a case where showing it doesn't match up with the insanity part. At least do some kind of freaky, abstract, disturbing imagery. Two robots opening their eyes and a planet blowing up is common place in the world of Star Trek. Romulus just went under.
Lovecraft did it better by not actually saying what was the horror, and let your imagination go with it.
She's literally no longer Seven of Nine. More like One of Many. Or just Annika.
digged the whole Raffi Rios Holo scenes as well as Space Samurai hugging Seven immediately after her entrance.
Glad Seven didn't remain hooked to the Cube/Power trip.
The episode would have needed more time to reflect, it was basically info dump after info dump with almost no moment to reflect/ramifications and the SUPER small universe syndrome with Rios backstory tying conveniently tying into the supposed Data daughters.
Dito the Borgified "cuckoo Auntie" of the siblings being a Zhat Vash as well.
Glad Seven didn't remain hooked to the Cube/Power trip.
The episode would have needed more time to reflect, it was basically info dump after info dump with almost no moment to reflect/ramifications and the SUPER small universe syndrome with Rios backstory tying conveniently tying into the supposed Data daughters.
Dito the Borgified "cuckoo Auntie" of the siblings being a Zhat Vash as well.
In the middle of the episode right now, but I just wanted to say, the Emergency Hospitality Hologram is a "close talker".
And now, the Emergency Hologram encounter group.
And now, the Emergency Hologram encounter group.
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I find it incredible how many leaps of logic people are willing to take with this plot. At least some people are willing to admit it. Here are some questions that occurred to me during this episode:
-Why is the Zhat Vash's secret a secret to begin with? Shouldn't they be warning everyone about the dangers of AI that they've discovered?
-How do the Zhat Vash police Romulan society against studying AI if no one knows they exist? Does every Romulan who attempts to study AI mysteriously end up dead?
-What in the holy heck are the odds that Rios' back story is intimately tied up in the main plot? Didn't they hire him somewhat at random?
-Why didn't the Zhat Vash wait just a little bit longer to engineer the attack on Mars until all efforts to evacuate Romulus were over?
The hand-wavy explanations I hear some people give for some questions people bring up are just plain bizarre. The whole deal with the EMH not reporting a murder has to be my favorite example. "He's not sentient," "He's not programmed to be proactive," "No one asked."... Even if we didn't have the examples of Robert Picardo and Andy Dick who would most definitely report a murder - heck, I'm even having a hard time imagining Vic Fontaine not reporting a murder - it's such a common sense thing that it's ridiculous to imagine otherwise, similar to how the main computer warns you of an imminent warp breach whether you ask it to or not.
-Why is the Zhat Vash's secret a secret to begin with? Shouldn't they be warning everyone about the dangers of AI that they've discovered?
-How do the Zhat Vash police Romulan society against studying AI if no one knows they exist? Does every Romulan who attempts to study AI mysteriously end up dead?
-What in the holy heck are the odds that Rios' back story is intimately tied up in the main plot? Didn't they hire him somewhat at random?
-Why didn't the Zhat Vash wait just a little bit longer to engineer the attack on Mars until all efforts to evacuate Romulus were over?
The hand-wavy explanations I hear some people give for some questions people bring up are just plain bizarre. The whole deal with the EMH not reporting a murder has to be my favorite example. "He's not sentient," "He's not programmed to be proactive," "No one asked."... Even if we didn't have the examples of Robert Picardo and Andy Dick who would most definitely report a murder - heck, I'm even having a hard time imagining Vic Fontaine not reporting a murder - it's such a common sense thing that it's ridiculous to imagine otherwise, similar to how the main computer warns you of an imminent warp breach whether you ask it to or not.
Girlfriend? The synth who was killed on the ibn Majid wasn't Rios's girlfriend. She was a visitor to his ship who was murdered by his captain.I loved seeing all the Rios holograms interacting - the engineering one with the Scottish accent was a blast!
Robert Picardo's Doctor would have immediately reported a murder, yes - once he reached the point where he had the capacity to self-activate (and de-activate), which had to be specifically written into his programming, at his request, when he became the long-term chief medical officer aboard Voyager, rather than merely a fallback for use in emergencies. La Sirena's holograms don't have that kind of capacity. They only activate when requested, or when the ship's internal sensors detect an urgent requirement. So once Agnes switched him off, the EMH couldn't activate himself to report her actions, because he was not programmed to do so. Once activated again (because internal sensors detected a medical emergency), he reported what he had earlier seen.
So, you've been watching MegaRando42, who after a year of complaining that she wanted a nostalgia based series, complains whenever ST:P gives us a sliver of nostalgia?
Unless you're actually in government and able to enforce an AI ban, there are limits on what you're able to do. And it's not like they can just freely pick up people and take them to the Conclave of Eight to watch the admonition... Romulans haven't ever been portrayed as telepaths, they can't just show it to people through a mind-meld like Oh did with her Vulcan heritage.
So, they're limited to telling people, or at best, showing them footage. And of course, there's always the option of using mind probes. Which are highly illegal outside the Romulan Star Empire and have an inconvenient little side effect of leaving most people insane. I find it quite likely that they tried to warn people at first, and they eventually just realized that there were still enough people who wouldn't be deterred by simple warnings, or some who might even become more curious and convinced that they wouldn't do the same mistakes the ancients did. Never underestimate the curiosity and hubris of sentient beings.
Not to mention, their resources are quite limited. They're a secret cabal operating behind the shadows, not a sanctioned Romulan government agency with a huge budget. Their capabilities are probably restricted to infiltration of key positions and select assassinations of people whose research has become too dangerous.
The Zhat Vash proper seem to be just a couple of people (most of their recruits, when inducted, seem to commit suicide or go catatonic when subjected to that cosmic horror recording).
Also Seven probably killed those Tal Shiar operatives she dropped with her blue phaser "stun" setting (but who cares, they're evil mooks, and it may have been a high stun setting that can potentially kill at close range). I like to think Seven incapacitated them, but their heart rate and breathing too slowed down to casually register (and Narissa was too in a hurry/didn't care to properly check and revive them).
Too bad for Hugh but I'm so glad Seven didn't get lost within the Borg cube's innards (which looked awesome when she revved it up).
Also Seven probably killed those Tal Shiar operatives she dropped with her blue phaser "stun" setting (but who cares, they're evil mooks, and it may have been a high stun setting that can potentially kill at close range). I like to think Seven incapacitated them, but their heart rate and breathing too slowed down to casually register (and Narissa was too in a hurry/didn't care to properly check and revive them).
Too bad for Hugh but I'm so glad Seven didn't get lost within the Borg cube's innards (which looked awesome when she revved it up).
