Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x05 - "Stardust City Rag"

[Gonzo]

Yeah, the implication that Lore was just permanently dismantled has always bothered me. I preferred to think him being held in some bizarre high security scifi prison like a comicbook supervillain, Data and Bruce Maddox occasionally visiting him and him taunting them behind the forcefields.

It is actually pretty weird that Lore has not been mentioned at all. They especially told us what happened to B4, but Lore would be a much more important part of the picture.

I would say its suspicious that no one has mentioned him yet.

Data has been covered and even B4 has been shown in the drawer but not a whiff of Lore.

Speaks volumes I think.

 

[fireproof78]

It is a series made for the audience of today and casting young woman all the time to play the love interests of clearly older guys just put out the message that 1. older women are unattractive and 2. youth and beauty is the most important attribute a woman can possess. Everything else is secondary.

Why didn't they cast someone younger for the role of Narek? If Data would have had sons who look like they were 20 year old, they would have never cast an actress as old looking as him to play the son's love interest. Not to mention Narek's older sister and boss is played by an actress who is 33 and therefore two years younger than Treadaway. So another reason to cast someone younger than him.

Or why didn't they cast someone older for the role of Jurati? Alison Pill is 34 and she plays someone who seemingly had worked for quite some time already on androids before the Mars attack happened 14 years before. Not to mention that she dates a guy who 34 years before wanted to take Data apart and study him and 58 years before was a member of the Starfleet admission board who objected Data's entry into Starfleet. When he died he must have been 80+ years old. Casting an older actress would have lessened the age difference to Maddox if they wanted a romance so much between them and it would have also made more sense why she bemoaned in an earlier episode that her life work was stopped with the ban of the synths. But I guess two main actresses out of 3 being a bit older was a no go for them. They wanted their "young female eye candy".

I don't agree but I see your point.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Data has been covered and even B4 has been shown in the drawer but not a whiff of Lore.

If Lore was destroyed when the D stardrive blew, and everyone knows it, why would they mention him?

 

[Longinus]

I would've been far more cruel to the horrible women who did that to Icheb.
I would've dissected her to make her suffer the same fate he did and torture her, revive her, then repeatedly torture her till she can revive no more.

Get help.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The repugnance I felt was due to the implication that their relationship may have been exploitative, with Maddox using her intelligence and admiration for his work/genius to accomplish questionable or even dangerous things. Something clearly damaged her mental health, and I fear her relationship with Maddox may have led to that breaking point.

Assuming Maddox took advantage or coerced Jurati infantilizes her, doesn’t it?

 

[Blooded]

I’ll say this too. I am becoming more and more concerned about what the big reveal is going to be.

Why? I’m quite liking the buildup!

There's hints in this episode she and Bjazyl may have had a thing.

They may have started out as hints but, by the end, I thought it was pretty darn clear that they’d previously had a thing?

As Seven beams off the ship, it's said that a few notes from the Voyager theme can be heard. I watched it about ten times listening for it and I couldn't hear it.

Recognised it straight away, and thought it was genuinely beautiful. I would imagine VOY die hards would get a tear in their eye(s) at that point. Great little scene, too.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I did not notice the VGR theme myself on first viewing, but having read that it was there, could hear it in the second.

 

[Gonzo]

If Lore was destroyed when the D stardrive blew, and everyone knows it, why would they mention him?

Lore was disabled not destroyed in TNG: Descent.

 

[fireproof78]

Lore was disabled not destroyed in TNG: Descent.

But, the D was destroyed. If Lore was still stored there he could have been lost.

 

[The Old Mixer]

But Lore's fate was never established, and they easily could have dropped a line establishing otherwise if they were conscious of the matter and wanted to take that possibility off the table.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I just realised, Seven of Nine is basically Dark Fate Sarah Connor. Just without the time travelling robots.

 

[Gonzo]

Assuming Maddox took advantage or coerced Jurati infantilizes her, doesn’t it?

She may have been the one who seduced him, especially if she was already a member of Zhat Vash.

Which would give her the motive, means and opportunity to trigger the attack on Mars.

She told Picard that she was there when everything was shut down, why did she stay, perhaps it was because those were her last orders, to wait for anyone that came along asking questions, maybe even Maddox but he was not stupid enough to go back there.

At this point she is either a careless patsy or a cunning spy and operative for Zhat Vash.

Was she a sleeper agent and the Commodore woke her up, or was she simply shown what all the fuss and death was really about.

 

[fireproof78]

But Lore's fate was never established, and they easily could have dropped a line establishing otherwise if they were conscious of the matter and wanted to take that possibility off the table.

Perhaps it will still happen.

 

[Gonzo]

But, the D was destroyed. If Lore was still stored there he could have been lost.

I doubt he would have been kept there permanently, Maddox probably got his hands on him.

We know Data was in frequent communication with him.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Assuming Maddox took advantage or coerced Jurati infantilizes her, doesn’t it?

Her character is portrayed as youthful, idealistic, limited in real world experience, and very sheltered.
It isn't a stretch - to me - to assume that Maddox exploited her naivete and used her intelligence to get what he wanted. She certainly seemed to be triggered by his wistful, worshipful smile as he contemplated his 'creation' and their 'perfection.'

@The Old Mixer

I think our takeaway was supposed to be that Jurati killed Maddox in spite of their relationship, not because of it.

I think there was a knife's edge of nuance there...she was conflicted, very conflicted from the moment he appeared, holding back some kind of secret pain. I would wager we will find out that she did some terrible things to support his research.

 

[fireproof78]

I doubt he would have been kept there permanently, Maddox probably got his hands on him.

We know Data was in frequent communication with him.

I think it's a possibility and one maybe of interest for future stories.

Personally, I don't want Lorw to come back, at least not in physical form.

 

[1987SpaceGuy]

- unnecessary and too up close graphic violence with Icheb and Co at the beginning for my taste. The point and Seven's pain would have come across with a little less of it, just as well.
- the paragraphed "secret" romance between the scientists and then her offing Maddox.

+ NCIS New Orleans actress who played the turned evil former Fenris Ranger and got offed by Seven
+ Seven kind of calling out Picard at the end, generally being a badass and doing what'd I'd do in her situation.
+ Rios leaving Seven the signal-do-that on the low
+ Rios Holos
I'm at QUARK's Bar if you are looking for me <3

Also, I wish some would just slap some reality into Picard when he lecturers people like that.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Also, I wish some would just slap some reality into Picard when he lecturers people like that.

Don't we all.

 

[Tuskin38]

Funny, all the ways Seven changed, she still says she's 'functional' after asking how she is, not 'ok', not 'fine', but 'functional'.

 

[Bgt]

68pages! omg you ppl! ok sorry guys and gals.. no time to read those :/


OMG, when Seven said "my child" it really got me, reminded me of Drone's "you are hurting me".
Poor Seven, she had two children and lost both of them.

I voted 10, not because it was a perfect episode (although quite good) but cause Sir Pat and Jeri sharing the screen is perfection (imho both best acting in the whole ST universe).

I do have issues though with the quantity of angst in this show so far.
Traumatized Picard, Vigilante and traumatized Seven, Raffi with a broken family and past of addiction, a devastated Aggie atones by murdering ppl, I am sure something horrible has happened to captain Rios as well..
I mean why?

Both Disco (that I almost hate) and ST Picard (that I like a lot- not love yet) seem to focus in the dark grim corners of the ST universe.
And ok, for Disco it is more than obvious that its creators wanted to make GOT in space or whatever current TV trend is out there without really focusing on creating an interesting universe, "ST Picard" comes from an era that we already know with characters that we are already familiar with for many years, that have been transformed to traumatized, sad and almost depressed people.
Sir Pat seems to enjoy and agree with how different ST Picard is, and that puzzles me a bit.
Personally I do not get it, why ST current creators (and stars) want so much to leave the ST we know for something much darker? Trying to "escape" from what made ST being loved by so many ppl? Just for the shake of being trendy?
*shrugs*