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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x05 - "Stardust City Rag"

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Bad Thoughts said:
What I did not like is that there was far too much "said" versus "shown," when there could easily been more shown. More of the time that Seven used to explain what was happening to the Borg and how it affected her could have been transferred over to Icheb's death. We could have seen Seven struggling, and failing, to save Icheb, adding levels of guilt on top of her desire for revenge.
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I can forgive it but more could have been thrown that way instead of the dress up portion and telling us why they were looking like that. The club spoke for itself, anything less gaudy would have stood out we didn't need people to tell us why. I wouldn't expect as much detail as above since it isn't the Seven show but it was a very cold start as is.
 
SJGardner said:
"Do you know what the trouble is? The trouble is Earth. On Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. It's easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there in the demilitarized zone all the problems haven't been solved yet. Out there, there are no saints, just people-angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive, whether it meets with Federation approval or not."

So many people seem to forget the Federation has never ever been portrayed as a shiny, perfect lotus-eater machine filled with flawless, eternally happy people.
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The cultural arrogance of the Federation "elites" was a theme touched on by the more daring of shows like DS9 and VOY. TNG tended to revel in that arrogance. If there is any dramatic element of Trek that could be rightfully called "Gene's Vision" it would be the excessive hubris and limited empathy of a near-utopian society.
 
Gonzo said:
Oh its a TOS episode, I haven't watched any of those since the 80's.
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Ah...in that case, you probably fell asleep during it.

Search4 said:
Core question: why could Raffi find Maddox but the head of Starfleet Security could not?
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Cuz she's just that gooood. Hey, she worked with Picard, so she'd have to be the best and the brightest as far as substance-addicted, absentee-mom conspiracy theorists go.

WarpFactorZ said:
I must agree on this. Having not watched Voyager, the only reason I know who Icheb was is his mention on this board in relation to Picard (i.e. earlier predictions from the trailer that maybe 7 was cradling him). I feel that was too deep a reach.
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I don't think you needed to know the characters to get what was going on in that scene. She even called Icheb her son...if anything, new viewers might just take that part too literally.
 
eschaton said:
One of my biggest quibbles in Trek is "small quadrant syndrome."

A lot of fans seem to love adding to lore in a way that ties everything together into some mega-story. But the galaxy alone is immense in scope (as Jurati herself noted in the fourth episode). One of the reasons TOS seemed like such a wild-open show compared to the later ones is because we virtually never met the same people twice, and Kirk & co typically were tangling with low-level crises limited to a single planet/solar system.

The later shows have for the most part steadily "epiced" it up by having the protagonists directly interface with the heads of state of interstellar governments, save Earth/the quadrant/the galaxy, etc. But every time this is done, the imaginative potential of the setting shrinks a little bit more.

Right now I'm happy with the scale of Picard compared to say Discovery. One can quibble about the setup, but the stakes are small/personal, which jibes well with Picard's overall level of power at this point and the ship itself being nothing special. If it goes to Picard must save the galaxy and it all ties in to some fanwanky lore I'll be very disappointed.
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I would also be quite happy if it stays small beans, sticks with being a redemption arc for Picard and those around him and the season ending in a nicely wrapped high note with hints at a much larger conspiracy for S2 or a spinoff.

Its not looking like it will stay that way though, whatever the TRUTH is it was enough for Jurati to put her ex boyfriend down for the big sleep, just like that, she didn't even give him a few minutes to defend his actions or explain himself.

That speaks for itself.
 
Gonzo said:
I would also be quite happy if it stays small beans, sticks with being a redemption arc for Picard and those around him and the season ending in a nicely wrapped high note with hints at a much larger conspiracy for S2 or a spinoff.
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Story structure-wise, I think that may be what they're going for. I could see them hooking up Soji with the rest of the crew, learning what the big secret is, and then having to deal with it in future seasons.
 
Jedi_Master said:
The cultural arrogance of the Federation "elites" was a theme touched on by the more daring of shows like DS9 and VOY. TNG tended to revel in that arrogance. If there is any dramatic element of Trek that could be rightfully called "Gene's Vision" it would be the excessive hubris and limited empathy of a near-utopian society.
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We saw another symptom of that in TNG as well.

Picard and co swanning around in the Galaxy class Ent D thinking themselves the big cheeses.

Then along comes Q who decides they need a lesson so he throws the Ent D into the path of a Borg Cube, they stopped laughing pretty soon after. :biggrin:
 
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eschaton said:
Right now I'm happy with the scale of Picard compared to say Discovery. One can quibble about the setup, but the stakes are small/personal, which jibes well with Picard's overall level of power at this point and the ship itself being nothing special.
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I would think the most "Picard" thing to do would be to fight for one person or one group as a means of defending and giving meaning to the values of his civilization.
 
The Old Mixer said:
Story structure-wise, I think that may be what they're going for. I could see them hooking up Soji with the rest of the crew, learning what the big secret is, and then having to deal with it in future seasons.
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The problem is that secret, its either going to be a huge galaxy spanning oh shit moment which will turn it into the usual save the universe gig or a damp squib with everyone wondering what the big deal is.

Its going to be tricky for them to nail the landing after having built it up to such an extent.

I get the feeling it is leaning towards the Borg which would explain the Zhat Vash and the attack on Mars but it does not explain the Supernova.

I can accept that a Supernova could in theory be triggered early but to do so without leaving any trace is something else entirely even for the Borg, in fact its something else for anyone but the Q or one of the elder races we have seen hints of over the years.

If not the Borg then its sounding more and more like time travel will be involved and possibly tie in with S2 of Discovery, I can certainly understand why that possibility does not sit well with some.

Unless the culprits for the Supernova/Mars are the big secret but that doesn't fit with what Jurati just did, the words she used are telling though, she didn't say "I have to do this to stop you from making a mistake" or "for you to atone for what you have done", she said "I have to atone for what I have done" and then kills him.

Which is something else entirely.
 
Streamvision depends on "big reveals" in the last few moments of the final episode, reveals that lead to endless social media attention and speculation during the interregnum between seasons. I doubt we will get anything more than a "shocking" glimpse into the REAL story by time this season wraps up.
 
The more I've mulled over this episode, the less I've liked it. I think it's the weakest episode overall. It honestly feels kinda like a bad fanfic more than an episode of Picard. We revisit classic characters, get a big fanwanky name-drop or two. two-dimensional villains who are easily defeated, and all the dialogue is overwritten and the characters are over-emotive. It was at least semi-episodic again, but there was a notable absence of real themes this time around, and only Seven got to really have character progression. Maddox's "reveal" was lame as hell too, since he basically just told Picard things we already knew as the viewer. They should have teased a bit of something else.

Hopefully next week is more of a return to form.
 
I thought this episode was stronger as a whole than any ep since the pilot, mostly cause the story of Seven’s turn toward chaotic good was more interesting than anything to do with the rest of Picard’s crew so far.

I just think they should have done more justice to Icheb’s character instead of redshirting him, and I didn’t like the predictable betrayal at the end.

The main negative about the show so far for me is that Rafi, Rios, the samurai and the engineer are not compelling characters. So the episode revolving around Seven improved it. But now they are veering into the territory of so many betrayals none are surprising or interesting.

There’s a parabolic graph between number of betrayals and how exciting betrayals are. And the last scene brought them way past the peak.
 
Bad Thoughts said:
However, the scene relied heavily on knowing and remembering the relationship between Icheb and Seven of Nine. As someone who has not watched Voyager in a long time, Icheb's death didn't resonate with me as it might with others.
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I didn't hear his name, and the scene worked for me anyway. I thought he was another ex-drone Seven of Nine had met over the intervening years.
 
Jedi_Master said:
The cultural arrogance of the Federation "elites" was a theme touched on by the more daring of shows like DS9 and VOY. TNG tended to revel in that arrogance. If there is any dramatic element of Trek that could be rightfully called "Gene's Vision" it would be the excessive hubris and limited empathy of a near-utopian society.
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I'd have to agree with this assessment. I think there has been something of a cult that has sprung around "Gene's Vision" - started and supported by fans and fueled by marketing in a sort of incestuous mix of hype. TNG only really started to get good when Roddenberry was gone frankly. I recall the reaction I had to Troi basically calling Luisi Kim an idiot dreamer in the season 1 episode 'Home Soil' and had thought to myself how f%&$ing douchy that seemed...
 
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Bruce and Aggie's relationship was so sweet. I was really hoping they would rekindle it. Alas... :sigh:

Kor
 
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