The more things change, the more things will stay the same. People will want "Real Oysters" and "Real Animals". Not replicated stuff.
Spoilers Everyday life on earth
- Thread starter robau
- Start date
Right, here we go. The real reason. You want to have artificial scarcity so that you can 'punish' lazy people.
Or real Kelpiens.
If they were replicated then why in the world did Ben need to clean and shuck them?
What I think @KamenRiderBlade is trying to do is take the guess work out of such a system. Right now, there is a lot of assumptions of what people might do, and I think this discussion has moved more towards how it might work. Barter is an awesome system but having an equal means of exchange is also appropriate to have for people to work within. It benefits to have such guidelines.
Sighs...well, the nice conversation was nice while it lasted.
And the real reason you want to have Endless resources is so you can have a boundless supply of lazy "Do nothing Productives" that leech on societies resources. Call it "Infinite Energy" so somebody else can do the work to keep the system running, while your lazy "Do Nothings" waste time and not contribute to society as a whole.
Modern humanity draws the line for animals to eat that requires Sentience and Sapience.
I literally do not remember this oyster thing at all. Maybe they were real, it is not that they're much more complicated than plants, even though they're technically animals, they don't have brains after all. Or they were replicated as whole because preparing them is part of the process. I feel this is bit too specific detail though. I am not really claiming that everything ever presented in Trek is super consistent with the no money system any more than warp speeds are. I'm talking about the overall concept. [/QUOTE]
I am not really suggesting barter and I'm sure on national level there is currency so that states can trade things that cannot be replicated such as dilithium. But normal people don't need to do that. Anything they reasonably could need, they can get from their home replicator or a replicentre if it was a bigger item. Things like Picard's wine etc are not bartered, they're just given away because the purpose of producing them was not profit anyway, just the joy of making them and having people to enjoy them.
And unlike you I am trying to envision more enlightened future. And it was literally stated on TNG that people no longer enslave animals for food.
Just like the use of "Money" has been contradicted within Star Trek, I'm pretty sure the whole eating animals for food is contradictory.
Just look at Sisko's where they used Clams / oysters that had to be Schucked.
If you're going to replicate them, why would they need to be Schucked?
People can still enjoy Picards wine while having equivalent exchange for it.
And, at a conceptual level this could work. But, there is still energy required and input required. The average person may not care-after all, no one really worries that the fiat currency currently used is actually worthless. They just use it.
But, again, to KamenRider's point, energy is not a zero sum game. The laws of thermodynamics are still at play which means there is still input and output that requires accounting. On a small scale it is probably relatively meaningless. On a large scale it would require accounting. Unless replicators are drawing from subspace or another on demand energy supply.
I get the principle-but this is going more in depth than just "It just works!"
That's what we fans do. We try to make it work as close to reality as possible given our current understanding of Lore / Logic / Tech / Science / etc.
Well, give that many fans I encounter desire to make Star Trek a reality it would make sense to try to work within the (often contradictory) parameters given.
But, sometimes the fantasy is what people prefer. I like a balance of both.
Perhaps you should think hard why you feel this way? Would you not work if you weren't forced to by a threat of poverty? And why it offends you so that some people indeed might be 'lazy'? In the society I propose it would not affect you in any way.
And with increased robotisation in the real world there will not be work for many people soon. Robots get better and better and eventually can do most things humans can except faster and with less errors. So we better start envisioning societal structures where our sustenance is not linked to work.
I would do my job even if I were not paid for it. Some even joked I had done it for years. And I'll do it long past retirement and automation have taken over.
If somebody is being a leech in the system that contributes NOTHING to it, then we cut off the leeches. Be productive and contributory in some way.
Hell, I respect Prostitutes more than the bum who sits on their couch playing video games all day and not contribute anything to the greater whole of society. At least the Prostitute works for a living satisfying their customers as much as they can, and as often as they can. The bum who sits there playing video games only satisfies themselves.
In the society you propose, you would have dead weight that everybody else would have to carry. Sorry I don't want society to carry dead weight. EVERYBODY that can, WILL contribute in whatever way they can. Even if you're partially disabled, there will be a job that they will be suited to work in. EVERYBODY will contribute to the system, and we'll all be greater for it because there will be more work going in, more output coming out.
I mean there probably is some theoretical limit to stuff one person can replicate, it just is so high it doesn't matter in practice. And sure, some accounting goes behind the scenes, and energy production is adjusted according consumption, but these are logistical things on societal level and nothing that concern the citizens directly.
Trust me, there will always be work. You just have to find it or make it.
Future Truck Drivers will be Truck Route Pilot System Managers / Security Guards with 3 people armed to the teeth per truck. Large Semi-Truck thefts will drop dramatically because each theft will require much higher resources to stop and steal from.
Delivery People will be Delivery Drone managers in a mobile van that acts as a moving base.
Etc.
Potentially, but it would still exist and people would be keeping track of them because some people enjoy such accounting.
It being a part of the system takes nothing away, and, in fact, allows for the energy consumption and second law of thermodynamics to at least be acknowledged, if not just outright broken.
I don't consider human beings as 'dead weight'. And you simply do not understand that with sufficient levels of energy production and automation your outdated assumptions will not apply.
Get used to being a 'leech' to the robots. It will happen sooner than you think.
Similar threads
