Luckily, there are still alot of trappings of reality within Star Trek, just extrapolated and theorized as to how things will be in the future.
Spoilers Everyday life on earth
- Thread starter robau
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But, people will prefer fantasy. Extrapolating is fun for me but bringing up reality seems uncouth.
That's your preference, but I prefer a more realistic lens to my Star Trek.
I didn't state my preference.
Ok, whatever. Enjoy it however you like. I'll enjoy Star Trek in the way I like.
Ok...
This has nothing to do with money, money is completely made up. Yes, there will be some theoretical limit to energy, and yes work needs to be done. Neither of these in anyway necessitate existence of money. You simply lack imagination to conceive that things could be arranged differently, capitalism is not a law of physics.
Yes. But you fail to extrapolate what nigh limitless energy, replicators and high level of automation would actually mean. The society remaining stuck into out scarcity based economic model is such a situation is highly unrealistic.
An equal means of exchange is appropriate though.
If I lacked imagination, I wouldn't be using my brain to figure out a better, more fair method of exchange for Energy, Matter, and Work. I just don't believe in your vision of getting things for "Free", just because of kindness. Everybody that can work, shall work. No exceptions in my UFP. You get to choose your profession, train into things that you care about. But at the end of the day, your hard work will get you Energy Credits / Matter Credits which can be redeemed for other goods / services. That being stated. The endless ripping off of people by over-charging for stuff wouldn't be allowed in my UFP, but a fair price would be required by law / regulation based on measured Energy / Matter / Work costs.
Nope, I've accounted for it. I have visions for my model of the future.
You have modern world with energy credits instead of dollars. You're truly a great visionary!
It's a bit more complicated than that.
You have to mix proper Energy / Matter / Work credits.
And lots of Scientific analysis to base the costs of per person and per item along with transactional costs.
Can we not be snarky? It's an interesting debate and I'm enjoying the back and forth.
No need to get personal.
But I like being snarky!
Nice to know though.
Ultimately I feel that the 'no money' concept as presented requires that people do not use money in their daily lives and that they're not motivated by material compensation. And personally it feels much more interesting to me to ponder how such a society could actually work than just replacing dollars with energy credits. Science fiction envisioning the future world need to be more than just replacing the props and putting 'quantum' in front of half the words.
I see people on Adam Savage's "Tested" crew basically living out their lives doing jobs they want to do instead of jobs they have to do. Each one is building, making, reporting, or informing. The only difference is that their source of income is a bit different then most average people.
In the future, it'll be easier to enter the job you want, make a good living, and eventually go into business for yourself instead of working for somebody else. You won't be motivated by material compensation because you can get what you want anyways with relative ease and some hard work.
And what does the existence of money add to this system? Why can't these people do the stuff they enjoy for free and also get their material possessions for free? Why is linking doing stuff you like with acquiring materiel possessions required?
But, there is still a means of exchange, which is all money is. People obviously can get what they want, but some things would require exchange, since they would require input and output to produce. For example, Sisko's restaurant requires additional input (clams or oysters-can't remember). So is he allocated more?
Money doesn't mean that's what I'm working for. It just is a means to move resources around, especially outside the Federation.
I don't see the issue with identifying the means of exchange if it requires more energy, matter, anti-matter, etc.
Money is a medium of exchange for disparate Goods / Services. Acquisition of Money isn't the End All / Be All of life. Most of society will have learned about that by the 24/25th centuries and there will be rules / regulations designed to prevent monopolisitic behaviors designed to snowball the acquisition of it.
That being said, I believe in equivalent exchange. If you want something, you gotta output something on your end.
I don't believe in just "Free Stuff" for everybody for no work. That goes against what I believe in.
If that's the ideal world you want to live in, go ahead, dream it up. But I think many more people will find your world to be more fantasy than a believable extrapolation into the future compared to how I think.
If you want to have a world full of lazy good for nothing leeches, by all means, encourage that type of behavior. See how your society progresses compared to my society of hard working folks.
I'd assume he is not allocated any real oysters as people no longer use real animals for food* so such things would be replicated and thus effectively free for him. But if there indeed was some non replicated material he needed, such as plants (he could replicate those too, but he might prefer real ones.) then I assume someone who likes growing them just gives them to him. And if there are not enough such things, then he has to do with replicated ones.
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