excitement...

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I guess I'll try to cleanse the palate here, try to tap into a simple point that is difficult to articulate.

Excitement.

I mean, step back for a second, Star wars.. the original films were made in a different time, and I'm starting to think their unique charm may actually be limited in its ubiquity to that time, and cannot carry over to today. Example: when Luke was trying to escape the cave, when he had that encounter with the wampa, that whole sequence was tense and exciting (it still is for me when I watch it) but I imaging that today that excitement is no longer felt. That he used his recovered saber to confront an adversary much bigger than him, and cut it's arm off was.. well.. it was AT LEAST as exciting as the music John Williams composed for that scene. Not sure if it it would play that way now, and maybe my point is that, whatever you think about modern Star Wars, good, bad, or treading water between the two, this moment to moment excitement isn't as much a part of the equation, and I'm not sure why why, and the same moment to moment excitement that built the original films isn't as exciting for today's younger (or young at heart) audiences anymore. Like in the same scene, Luke is trying to pull the saber to his hand, there is a real tangible sense of tension. In the last film, we know he touched the force to make a single shot, whether he steered the torpedoes with his mind, or he used the force to set the target on the guns to be react to BOTH his feelings as he touched the Force and to line up with the target we don't know (I'm glad they don't explain it) but we he started to move the saber, us kids in 1980 knew, or at least thought "yeah" he might be able to do it, probably. But now we are in a world where characters like Ebony Maw can move anything with his mind with nearly no effort.

It might not be the fault of star Wars, but the moment to moment excitement that built the originals (maybe) cannot be recaptured anymore.

 

[fireproof78]

It might not be the fault of star Wars, but the moment to moment excitement that built the originals (maybe) cannot be recaptured anymore.

No, it cannot.

 

[Smellmet]

I guess I'll try to cleanse the palate here, try to tap into a simple point that is difficult to articulate.

Excitement.

I mean, step back for a second, Star wars.. the original films were made in a different time, and I'm starting to think their unique charm may actually be limited in its ubiquity to that time, and cannot carry over to today. Example: when Luke was trying to escape the cave, when he had that encounter with the wampa, that whole sequence was tense and exciting (it still is for me when I watch it) but I imaging that today that excitement is no longer felt. That he used his recovered saber to confront an adversary much bigger than him, and cut it's arm off was.. well.. it was AT LEAST as exciting as the music John Williams composed for that scene. Not sure if it it would play that way now, and maybe my point is that, whatever you think about modern Star Wars, good, bad, or treading water between the two, this moment to moment excitement isn't as much a part of the equation, and I'm not sure why why, and the same moment to moment excitement that built the original films isn't as exciting for today's younger (or young at heart) audiences anymore. Like in the same scene, Luke is trying to pull the saber to his hand, there is a real tangible sense of tension. In the last film, we know he touched the force to make a single shot, whether he steered the torpedoes with his mind, or he used the force to set the target on the guns to be react to BOTH his feelings as he touched the Force and to line up with the target we don't know (I'm glad they don't explain it) but we he started to move the saber, us kids in 1980 knew, or at least thought "yeah" he might be able to do it, probably. But now we are in a world where characters like Ebony Maw can move anything with his mind with nearly no effort.

It might not be the fault of star Wars, but the moment to moment excitement that built the originals (maybe) cannot be recaptured anymore.

The thing is, with the original films is that moviegoers had never seen anything like them before, I mean, sure we'd had sci fi movies before, films set in space etc, but these were totally groundbreaking films. I was too young to see ANH on the big screen (saw the special editions at the cinema) but that opening scene must have blown people's minds - and it is still awesome today, not that this is the only bit that stands out, but what an opening, for me it still the greatest opening scene in any movie. They didn't just stop there though - the world they created, the characters, the sets, visuals, sound FX, score, costumes, literally EVERYTHING became instantly iconic and game changing.

Fast forward to today in the world of the Avengers films and Star Wars is just another blockbuster series in a crowded marketplace. It's not pushing any boundaries any more in any one of the categories above, and that's one of the reasons it's struggling to maintain the dominance it once had. It is no longer special.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

The thing is, with the original films is that moviegoers had never seen anything like them before, I mean, sure we'd had sci fi movies before, films set in space etc, but these were totally groundbreaking films. I was too young to see ANH on the big screen (saw the special editions at the cinema) but that opening scene must have blown people's minds - and it is still awesome today, not that this is the only bit that stands out, but what an opening, for me it still the greatest opening scene in any movie. They didn't just stop there though - the world they created, the characters, the sets, visuals, sound FX, score, costumes, literally EVERYTHING became instantly iconic and game changing.

Fast forward to today in the world of the Avengers films and Star Wars is just another blockbuster series in a crowded marketplace. It's not pushing any boundaries any more in any one of the categories above, and that's one of the reasons it's struggling to maintain the dominance it once had. It is no longer special.

Exactly

 

[fireproof78]

The thing is, with the original films is that moviegoers had never seen anything like them before, I mean, sure we'd had sci fi movies before, films set in space etc, but these were totally groundbreaking films. I was too young to see ANH on the big screen (saw the special editions at the cinema) but that opening scene must have blown people's minds - and it is still awesome today, not that this is the only bit that stands out, but what an opening, for me it still the greatest opening scene in any movie. They didn't just stop there though - the world they created, the characters, the sets, visuals, sound FX, score, costumes, literally EVERYTHING became instantly iconic and game changing.

Fast forward to today in the world of the Avengers films and Star Wars is just another blockbuster series in a crowded marketplace. It's not pushing any boundaries any more in any one of the categories above, and that's one of the reasons it's struggling to maintain the dominance it once had. It is no longer special.

Unfortunately, audiences haven't demonstrated an interest in anything new. So why push limits?

 

[Armus]

Example: when Luke was trying to escape the cave, when he had that encounter with the wampa, that whole sequence was tense and exciting (it still is for me when I watch it) but I imaging that today that excitement is no longer felt. That he used his recovered saber to confront an adversary much bigger than him, and cut it's arm off was.. well.. it was AT LEAST as exciting as the music John Williams composed for that scene.

There's no reason why new films can't capture the tension you so well described in TESB other than the fact that it may be a lost art. It's called good filmaking when the acting, direction, editing, and music work together to produce a real emotional response in the audience.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

There's no reason why new films can't capture the tension you so well described in TESB other than the fact that it may be a lost art. It's called good filmaking when the acting, direction, editing, and music work together to produce a real emotional response in the audience.

agreed.
But it's almost harder (in a different sense) now
Back then, audiences didn't see this very much. Now, characters facing up against 10 foot tall monsters or moving stuff with their minds .. those things are in almost every blockbuster.. every fantasy TV show, and every direct to video studio rip-off.

 

[Armus]

agreed.
But it's almost harder (in a different sense) now
Back then, audiences didn't see this very much. Now, characters facing up against 10 foot tall monsters or moving stuff with their minds .. those things are in almost every blockbuster.. every fantasy TV show, and every direct to video studio rip-off.

That may be true. It's also true that heroes today don't seem to be as vulnerable as Luke was in TESB. It's hard to create suspense when every young character in a film today is a born kung fu master.

 

[BillJ]

Unfortunately, audiences haven't demonstrated an interest in anything new. So why push limits?

Winner! Hollywood/the entertainment industry is risk-adverse. Why try anything new when people more often than not are likely to reject it?

Which is why we are getting a "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!" reboot.

 

[Armus]

Audiences don't know what they would like until it's presented to them. There was nothing like Star Wars being made in the mid 1970s. Quality films will eventually find an audience which is why Blade Runner eventually got a sequel.

I can't believe that there isn't a large audience who wouldn't like an original alternative to A Honey I Shrunk The Kids reboot.

 

[BillJ]

...and the same moment to moment excitement that built the original films isn't as exciting for today's younger (or young at heart) audiences anymore.

Because there is so much of it out there, and not only in movies. But TV and video games. The cinema is having a harder and harder time putting out a worthwhile experience that differentiates from the one we are already getting at home.

It might not be the fault of star Wars, but the moment to moment excitement that built the originals (maybe) cannot be recaptured anymore.

We are simply different people now than we were when we first encountered our favorite franchises. It is harder to impress us now.

 

[BillJ]

Quality films will eventually find an audience which us why Blade Runner eventually got a sequel.

You mean one that bombed? Blade Runner should have never received a sequel, at least one that cost as much as 2049 did. There was no proof the audience was ever there for it.

 

[Armus]

You mean one that bombed? Blade Runner should have never received a sequel, at least one that cost as much as 2049 did. There was no proof the audience was ever there for it.

I wasn't a fan of the sequel but the fact that one got made proves that a quality film like the original Blade Runner had acquired enough appeal throughout the years to the point that a studio backed a sequel.

 

[Qonundrum]

Because there is so much of it out there, and not only in movies. But TV and video games. The cinema is having a harder and harder time putting out a worthwhile experience that differentiates from the one we are already getting at home.



We are simply different people now than we were when we first encountered our favorite franchises. It is harder to impress us now.

Having "seen it all before" being a partial reason...

Video games are more interactive and easier to pick up and re-do without waiting enough years to forget what happened during part two, 21 minutes 37 seconds in...

And when television is made to modern cinematic standards, it would be harder to compete on that alone. And I can't imagine many wanting movies to be ten-part escapades, with each installment released every other year, the way television shows are made to be. There's an inversion that need not happen.

 

[BillJ]

I wasn't a fan of the sequel but the fact that one got made proves that a quality film like the original Blade Runner had enough appeal that a studio backed a sequel.

I think the cult status of the original had more to do with it getting made than anything else. They thought (for unimaginable reasons) that people would flock to the box office for a follow up. Quality of the original had nothing to do with the decision making process.

 

[Armus]

I think the cult status of the original had more to do with it getting made than anything else. They thought (for unimaginable reasons) that people would flock to the box office for a follow up. Quality of the original had nothing to do with the decision making process.

Maybe not but the film had acquired a cult status because it was so beautifully made.

 

[BillJ]

And when television is made to modern cinematic standards, it would be harder to compete on that alone.

All I know, is that unless a film is something that I see as a special event (Star Trek, Star Wars), I'm more than content to stay at home and wait for it to come to me.

 

[fireproof78]

Audiences don't know what they would like until it's presented to them. There was nothing like Star Wars being made in the mid 1970s. Quality films will eventually find an audience which is why Blade Runner eventually got a sequel.

Blade Runner got a sequel because of risk aversion. Familiar property, familiar actors is as safe as it can be.

Audiences have not demonstrated any desire for new things, and Hollywood is not willing to move past that and take the risk. That's the thing. Hollywood has changed in terms of output and there simply isn't the cushion that was available in the 70s and 80s. Star Wars was considered a lark-it was there to prop up 20th Century Fox if "Damnation Alley" underperformed. Underperformance now means a lot more with a lot less cushion.

 

[BillJ]

Maybe not but the film had acquired a cult status because it was so beautifully made.

It was also a flop at the box office. Something that was a little too esoteric for main stream box office ticket buyers. 2049 was a financial disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Armus]

Blade Runner got a sequel because of risk aversion. Familiar property, familiar actors is as safe as it can be.

Audiences have not demonstrated any desire for new things, and Hollywood is not willing to move past that and take the risk. That's the thing. Hollywood has changed in terms of output and there simply isn't the cushion that was available in the 70s and 80s. Star Wars was considered a lark-it was there to prop up 20th Century Fox if "Damnation Alley" underperformed. Underperformance now means a lot more with a lot less cushion.

I only disagree that audiences haven't demonstrated a desire for new things. How can they demonstrate a disinterest if nothing new is being made?