Is Picard's Chateau French enough?

[DaveyNY]

That's a Northeastern thiong

It was kind of a delight to see Picard speak a little French in the pilot, even if it was a little stilted — Stewart did his best, and I’m going to pretend he was enunciating to teach the dog, per the actual dialogue.

But given how British Picard is, and how they’ve redone the house from what we already saw in “Family” and what was actually more appropriate for the region (kudos to the design team) I’m legit wondering about how much or little thought was put into the Frenchness of it all. My knowledge of French design isn’t superb so I throw it out there to others who might be more knowledgeable. Especially as we haven’t gotten any articles on the place or the props yet.

Tell you what though, when I watched The Irishman on Netflix recently and De Niro’s “Philadelphia native” character pronounced the name of the highway 4-7-6 instead of 4-76 like everyone else here does, at the very beginning of the three-hour epic, it did immediately take me out of the narrative. Details have effects.

I think that may be a Northeast USA kinda thing.
There's a highway near me that most folks call "I 8-Ninety" not "I 8-9-0".

 

[Nerys Myk]

In Southern Caliifornia they apparently say "the 1-0-1" while up here in Norther California we say 1-0-1".

 

[Arpy]

They can, though it depends on the person. The '476', I wouldn't even notice because I'm from a different part of the country. It likely also has no effect on people from other countries watching the shows.

I’m aware. But I was still taken out. As were thirty million others who know the road. It’s not as bad as, say, the scientists in Prometheus not knowing the first thing about science...maybe as many as forty million people were effected by that, but....

I can think of a number of reasons. Picard might not want the reminder of his brother, he might redecorate after leaving Starfleet because he wants something new. Maybe the decor was changed because the Romulans liked it.

Or, maybe French decor has changed in 300 years. I think there are a lot of assumptions here without exploring more character reasons.

Except it’s probably not character reasons so much as production reasons.

 

[fireproof78]

Except it’s probably not character reasons so much as production reasons.

Almost every decision is that, though.

Regardless, I don't think French decor is going to be just like decor from France today. I personally wouldn't expect it be so, just like others gave expected more futurism in Trek.

I think the question "French enough " is odd. Its like demanding a show be both historical and futuristic.

 

[Jesse1066]

In Southern Caliifornia they apparently say "the 1-0-1" while up here in Norther California we say 1-0-1".

I sometimes say "the 1-0-1" just to see how people will react.

 

[XCV330]

Well, according to some folks, "ST: PICARD" IS producing a lot of Cheese.

There are holes in their theories

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, according to some folks, "ST: PICARD" IS producing a lot of Cheese.

Hey now, Picard isn't a saint, yet.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, according to some folks, "ST: PICARD" IS producing a lot of Cheese.

That sounds gouda enough to me.

 

[DaveyNY]

I can see this getting a few folks fetta up with the hole thing.
But then again, many will just edam everything up.

 

[fireproof78]

Hey now, Picard isn't a saint, yet.

Thankfully.

 

[Arpy]

Almost every decision is that, though.

That's trying to have it both ways. You just got finished saying that it wasn't French for character reasons and now are saying almost every decision is production. I don't think that's the case here at all. They didn't give Picard a rich Italianate interest; they just figured French, Italian, meh, good enough.

I think the question "French enough " is odd. Its like demanding a show be both historical and futuristic.

Not when it's going for histrionic. It's not like the chateau was too busy with futurism to have room for some distinct Frenchness. It's specifically the 1) Picard 2) chateau presenting as a 3) rustic 4) French vineyard. I honestly think you're trying not to see it.

 

[fireproof78]

That's trying to have it both ways. You just got finished saying that it wasn't French for character reasons and now are saying almost every decision is production. I don't think that's the case here at all. They didn't give Picard a rich Italianate interest; they just figured French, Italian, meh, good enough.

No, I'm trying to understand the basis of your query. Thus far, there reason for questioning it seems insistent that the production team are missing some critical detail, or are apathetic to the design.

I'm just trying to do what I see fans often do-offer in universe rationale to it. If that isn't the point of the thread then I misunderstood and my bad.

Not when it's going for histrionic. It's not like the chateau was too busy with futurism to have room for some distinct Frenchness. It's specifically the 1) Picard 2) chateau presenting as a 3) rustic 4) French vineyard. I honestly think you're trying not to see it.

Ah, I see...if I don't agree with the question then the problem lies with me...

I offered an observation on my confusion. I retain that confusion because the demands strike me as incredibly inconsistent, and continue forward with the assumption that the production team is apathetic to their design work. At this point, it feels like a nitpick for the sake of nitpicking rather than actually looking at it from how it might inform us regarding the character or from a world building perspective (i.e. French design has changed over 300 years [realistic], Picard changed it for personal reasons [understandable]).

So, I'll leave the strange wonderings to those who find that "not being French enough" a good Trek question.

 

[urbandk]

I like doing the in-universe thing.

What is it to be a Trekkie if not to create elaborate, convoluted explanations for arbitrary production decisions and accidents

 

[Nerys Myk]

I like doing the in-universe thing.

What is it to be a Trekkie if not to create elaborate, convoluted explanations for arbitrary production decisions and accidents

It's what we live for.

 

[Arpy]

No, I'm trying to understand the basis of your query. Thus far, there reason for questioning it seems insistent that the production team are missing some critical detail, or are apathetic to the design.

If that's the reason, then that's the reason. My query is whether others can identify aspects of the design that are in fact representative of French culture.

Ah, I see...if I don't agree with the question then the problem lies with me...

...it that's the problem, then that's the problem. It isn't as if there aren't purposely argumentative people on the internet.

At this point, it feels like a nitpick for the sake of nitpicking rather than actually looking at it from how it might inform us regarding the character or from a world building perspective (i.e. French design has changed over 300 years [realistic], Picard changed it for personal reasons [understandable]).

It doesn't inform the character in the slightest if it does't register as not French – if we're supposed to look at an Italian building and take it for French. It doesn't suggest a deep sense of world building that will never be followed up again; it just tells me to not worry my pretty little head and go conjure apologetics, as if I need them to enjoy what was aired at face value.

So, I'll leave the strange wonderings to those who find that "not being French enough" a good Trek question.

Please do if it's not of interest to you.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Eh the house doesn't matter. Picard's Frenchness has been laughable from the beginning of TNG. The extent of making the character French has never been much better than slap a croissant in Stewart's hand once in a while.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Could be worse

 

[fireproof78]

If that's the reason, then that's the reason. My query is whether others can identify aspects of the design that are in fact representative of French culture.

I suppose the potential is there but again, 300 years and cultural drift can occur.

...it that's the problem, then that's the problem. It isn't as if there aren't purposely argumentative people on the internet.

Except, it's not. I'm trying to understand you, not argue. Assuming I am the problem is not good faith.

It doesn't inform the character in the slightest if it does't register as not French – if we're supposed to look at an Italian building and take it for French. It doesn't suggest a deep sense of world building that will never be followed up again; it just tells me to not worry my pretty little head and go conjure apologetics, as if I need them to enjoy what was aired at face value.

I disagree that it doesn't inform the character. I think seeing Picard in more an Italian style evokes the idea that he is a man searching for an identity yet struggling to find it. That's a more interesting interpretation than "Meh, producers don't give a shit."

 

[Arpy]

Eh the house doesn't matter. Picard's Frenchness has been laughable from the beginning of TNG. The extent of making the character French has never been much better than slap a croissant in Stewart's hand once in a while.

Enter the nihilists... We got a bit of a nod to that with Picard starting the series with a bit of French. He doesn't have to be perfect, they just need to make an effort. And it was charming.

An effort that was well enough already made during the series with house as seen in "Family." What's irksome here is that it seems like regression on achievement already accomplished. In GEN too, the Christmas Fantasy was in an ornate house that could have easily passed for French. Effort made.

 

[Arpy]

I suppose the potential is there but again, 300 years and cultural drift can occur.

No. Something that suggests French now. Unless you can present something that says French 300 years hence that isn't from another culture now or that isn't General Future that could be from anywhere in the solar system, human member world, Federation overall, or anywhere in the multiverse at all. It is far more likely that they'd present something contemporary French to meet the expectation of French Picard than creating something incongruous and then jumping through hoops to explain its quasi-legitimate Frenchness. I'd love for both, but if you can't do the simpler of the two, I don't have much faith in them doing the more complicated.

Except, it's not. I'm trying to understand you, not argue. Assuming I am the problem is not good faith.

Faith and truth are different things. I'm more interested in the latter than mentally twisting myself into a pretzel to squeeze out the former.

I disagree that it doesn't inform the character. I think seeing Picard in more an Italian style evokes the idea that he is a man searching for an identity yet struggling to find it. That's a more interesting interpretation than "Meh, producers don't give a shit."

So he returns to his ancestral chateau to try and fit into being a French vintner by building an Italian vineyard?

I'm more likely to think the producers "don't give a shit" because they clearly don't in the representation of Paris between PIC, DSC, TNG and DS9 either.