Earth cities in the 24th century

[Sululu]

We've of course seen San Francisco in previous series and movies, and now also in STP. We saw Boston, which was a new one.

One thing I've grappled with, is that - in ST canon - Earth enters a devastating world war later this century that will leave 600 million dead. We don't know too much about it - who the participants are - but suffice to say that it's a fair assumption that most of the world's major cities have been destroyed by nuclear weapons.

Now, I'd explain the prominence of San Francisco in ST as it's a secondary city - or you could imagine out of the range of the ICBMs of some North Korean/Chinese imagined antagonist - fine. Or they needed a city to live on to be the HQ of Starfleet. But we saw old parts of Boston too in S01E02 of STP.

Would the c24th have a new range of cities that are engines for Earth's development after Washington, New York, London, Moscow, Tokyo, Beijing are all presumably irradiated? And presumably UFP/Starfleet would have facilities in lots of these new cities - an archive here, a command center there, a research lab someplace else. Would Des Moines, Lisbon, Lusaka, Abu Dhabi be new urban hubs and UFP/Starfleet locations?

 

[Demosthenes]

I suspect technology was either developed on Earth, or borrowed/utilized by the Vulcans or other allies, to clean up the radiation from WW3 affected cities.

It would also not be unprecedented to rebuild cities in their historic style (we've done it, notably in Dresden). Shouldn't be too difficult with replicator tech etc.

 

[Crazyewok]

We've of course seen San Francisco in previous series and movies, and now also in STP. We saw Boston, which was a new one.

One thing I've grappled with, is that - in ST canon - Earth enters a devastating world war later this century that will leave 600 million dead. We don't know too much about it - who the participants are - but suffice to say that it's a fair assumption that most of the world's major cities have been destroyed by nuclear weapons.

Now, I'd explain the prominence of San Francisco in ST as it's a secondary city - or you could imagine out of the range of the ICBMs of some North Korean/Chinese imagined antagonist - fine. Or they needed a city to live on to be the HQ of Starfleet. But we saw old parts of Boston too in S01E02 of STP.

Would the c24th have a new range of cities that are engines for Earth's development after Washington, New York, London, Moscow, Tokyo, Beijing are all presumably irradiated? And presumably UFP/Starfleet would have facilities in lots of these new cities - an archive here, a command center there, a research lab someplace else. Would Des Moines, Lisbon, Lusaka, Abu Dhabi be new urban hubs and UFP/Starfleet locations?

Radiation from nuclear bombs is not long lasting like a nuclear melt down. It dissipates after a few years.

That's why Hiroshima and Nagasaki are bustling cities today.

 

[SJGardner]

Also, don't forget, that Paris, as one of the most important cities of Europe, is also shown as largely intact - DS9 showed the President's office tower digitally inserted into contemporary footage of Île de la Cité, and now Picard has already shown the 19th century Haussmannian apartments as more or less the same as they are today. Either the damage wasn't as severe as it could've been, or it had been rebuilt after the war, presumably with Vulcan assistance.

As for how radioactive those cities might be, I think that really depends on the kind of weapons used. Hiroshima, as an early low-yield weapon, is probably not a good comparison, but the Q&A section on their local government's website indicates that about 80% of the bomb's residual radiation was emitted within 24 hours, and radiation levels fell to 1/1,000 after one day and 1/1,000,000 after a week. So even if major cities were bombed, they probably were already safe to inhabit by the time the Vulcans arrived.

 

[TPezz]

They believe that if nuclear war broke out, Melbourne and Auckland would be the two safest cities in the world to avoid fallout, so perhaps these two become prominent in United Earth

 

[F. King Daniel]

What the actual fuck happened to Paris between 2257 and 2399

 

[Demosthenes]

It's peculiar how consistent the San Francisco / Golden Gate scenery is between Discovery and Picard (with some appropriate additional structures) but how different Paris is...

 

[SJGardner]

What the actual fuck happened to Paris between 2257 and 2399

That's hardly new, Paris looked different every time it appeared in the Berman era as well... even better, Homefront uses digitally enhanced contemporary footage for the establishing shot of the President's office, but the completely unrelated We'll Always Have Paris matte for the view from his window. To be fair, at least it was the same matte for those two episodes and The Undiscovered Country, albeit extensively repainted to remove most of the skyscrapers and the futuristic tubular rail under the Eiffel tower.

 

[Sululu]

Also what was up with the Golden Gate Bridge in STP having 400-year old solar panel technology on the roadway? Surely there would be other, more efficient means of producing power

 

[ITDUDE]

Also what was up with the Golden Gate Bridge in STP having 400-year old solar panel technology on the roadway? Surely there would be other, more efficient means of producing power

It’s a museum. “This is how we generated electricity 400 years ago”
It’s definitely not there for any practical reasons.

 

[Timo]

An art installation?

We've of course seen San Francisco in previous series and movies, and now also in STP. We saw Boston, which was a new one.

We got Boston in VOY "Pathfinder", too...

One thing I've grappled with, is that - in ST canon - Earth enters a devastating world war later this century that will leave 600 million dead. We don't know too much about it - who the participants are - but suffice to say that it's a fair assumption that most of the world's major cities have been destroyed by nuclear weapons.

Which in itself basically solves the riddle of how Paris and London can survive, not merely in terms of landmarks (which might have been rebuilt from scratch) but in terms of general cityscape (which would not have been, unless the idea was to create an outdoor museum, and the modern architecture mixed in nixes that idea). To qualify as "major", a city would obviously need to have at least ten million inhabitants, and probably twenty. So small towns like London or New York are not included. And Earth today already has very close to the number of truly big cities to account for the entire 600 million dead; by Trek's 2053, it is likely to have exactly that.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Also what was up with the Golden Gate Bridge in STP having 400-year old solar panel technology on the roadway? Surely there would be other, more efficient means of producing power

It's an odd choice. In TMP, TNG and DS9 it's got a train tunnel across it. In the Kelvin universe they still have ground cars along with flying and it's in regular use. It's just Disco and Picard (which until I saw them side-by-side I assumed was the same CG) that go with solar panels.

 

[seigezunt]

As a Masshole, I was just thrilled to see Boston.

Also, spot on that Boston would have Ferengi in it. Seems on brand.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

This is probably a really stupid question but...what does "Greater Boston" include, that just "Boston" does not?

It's peculiar how consistent the San Francisco / Golden Gate scenery is between Discovery and Picard (with some appropriate additional structures) but how different Paris is...

Probably because DSC and PIC are being produced simultaneously so they have time to work a consistent look. And since San Francisco is a hub of Starfleet and Federation activity, it'll make regular appearances, so they are well motivated to get it right.

Paris, OTOH, doesn't exactly show up a lot, so when it does, the makers probably forgot what it looked like in its last appearance.

As for Earth cities in general - I've always said that the Vulcans MUST have helped in the cleanup and rebuilding of society after the war. Otherwise it just would not be possible to rebuild an entire city, from scratch, in only a hundred years. Especially not after a nuclear war, when everything would be in ruins.

You can't rebuild a city if there's nothing left to rebuild it with.

 

[Tuskin38]

Probably because DSC and PIC are being produced simultaneously so they have time to work a consistent ;ook.

Paris, OTOH, doesn't exactly show up a lot, so when it does, the makers probably forgot what it looked like in its last appearance.

Your reasoning for San Fran would also apply to Paris, since Paris shows up in DSC, they would have the assets.

But they decided not to for Paris some reason.

This is probably a really stupid question but...what does "Greater Boston" include, that just "Boston" does not?

in Sci-Fi, Greater *City name* usually just means it's a lot bigger than it used to be.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I just had a thought. We're assuming Paris has an inconsistent appearance mostly because of the Eiffel Tower. Perhaps the tower was moved at some point. Or there could be multiple towers...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Also, spot on that Boston would have Ferengi in it. Seems on brand.

I wonder what Fenway Park looks like in 2399.

Baseball is apparently a thing again, as one of the ads on the street scene (where Dahj contacts her "mother") mentions the London Kings...

 

[Tuskin38]

Baseball is apparently a thing again, as one of the ads on the street scene (where Dahj contacts her "mother") mentions the London Kings...

The sign for the London Kings is in Boston (you can see it in the picture above), Dahj contacts her mother when she's in Paris.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Whoopsies.

 

[Noname Given]

Radiation from nuclear bombs is not long lasting like a nuclear melt down. It dissipates after a few years.

That's why Hiroshima and Nagasaki are bustling cities today.

If the explosion is an air burst (the two used on Japan were). But a ground burst or underground test (like those done in Nevada or Bikini Atoll) could leave dangerous radioactive contamination for centuries.