How would Roddenberry rank his canon?

[Falconer]

Who would like to rank the Star Trek stories that Gene Roddenberry knew in his lifetime in order of how canonical he considered them? Break it down to seasons and films, or groups of seasons and groups of films, or single out episodes, or whatever you want. Just remember you are ranking how canonical HE thought it was, i.e., before he passed (but feel free to go into what he would have thought at different times of his life, if you like). Also, I’m mostly interested in on-screen Star Trek stories, but feel free to include other sources you think he would have considered important. I’m very interested to know.

My impression is something like this:

Star Trek: The Next Generation, Seasons 1-2
Star Trek: The Next Generation, Seasons 3-5
Star Trek: The Motion Picture
Star Trek, Seasons 1-2
Star Trek, Season 3
Star Trek II-IV
Star Trek V
The Animated Adventures of Gene Roddenberry’s Star Trek
Star Trek VI

Apologies in advance if I’m stepping on a sensitive issue. My personal ranking would be very different from what I’m proposing here, but, I thought it would be an interesting thought-experiment, a fun spin. Thanks!

 

[Lord Garth]

Gene Roddenberry in 1991? I'd say this is where Star Trek and Canon stood with him from top-to-bottom:

Canon:
1. TNG
(gap)
2. TMP
3. TOS
4. TWOK, TSFS, and TVH (but he'd only think of them as canon reluctantly)

Non-Canon:
5. TAS
6. TFF and TUC

So I think our takes on it aren't really any different.

 

[Vger23]

It never ceases to amaze me how strong my disinterest in "what Roddenberry thought" or "would have wanted" is. The man came up with a great idea 55 years ago. It's been touched by and contributed to by 100's and evolved so much since then.....it's barely worth thinking about.

 

[Falconer]

I certainly don’t expect everyone to be interested in the topic.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

My sense is that he wouldn’t because he’d be more interested in telling stories that hardly depend on the canon, flagging and resolving contradictions case-by-case.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I feel like the question 'How would roddenberry rank his canon' could be very easily misinterpreted. I'm sure he told a lot of ladies it was a 9.5" - 10".

 

[Winterwind]

It never ceases to amaze me how strong my disinterest in "what Roddenberry thought" or "would have wanted" is. The man came up with a great idea 55 years ago. It's been touched by and contributed to by 100's and evolved so much since then.....it's barely worth thinking about.

Indeed. He got lucky once and milked it as much as he could. He wasn't a great visionary unless his vision included the casting couch and dollar signs.

I simply don't understand why people keep putting him on some pedestal.

 

[F. King Daniel]

1. What can make him money at this exact time.

2. What won't make him money at this exact time.

3. Franz Joseph. Fuck that guy.

 

[drt]

Gene Roddenberry in 1991? I'd say this is where Star Trek and Canon stood with him from top-to-bottom:

Canon:
1. TNG
(gap)
2. TMP
3. TOS
4. TWOK, TSFS, and TVH (but he'd only think of them as canon reluctantly)

Non-Canon:
5. TAS
6. TFF and TUC

So I think our takes on it aren't really any different.

I'd move TWOK, TSFS and TVH down into non-canon. After getting pushed out after TMP there's no way he'd consider any of the other movies canon (except maybe aspects of TVH, since Paramount had made nice by then).

 

[BigDaveX]

Indeed. He got lucky once and milked it as much as he could. He wasn't a great visionary unless his vision included the casting couch and dollar signs.

I simply don't understand why people keep putting him on some pedestal.

I think it's mostly for the same reason many Star Wars fans immediately went from considering George Lucas a meddling twerp who didn't know what he was doing unless someone more talented was holding his hand, to the god-emperor and sole arbiter of all that is true Star Wars; they don't like the direction that the franchise has taken in recent years, and find it easy to blame the current producers from deviating from the template handed down by the creator.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'd move TWOK, TSFS and TVH down into non-canon. After getting pushed out after TMP there's no way he'd consider any of the other movies canon (except maybe aspects of TVH, since Paramount had made nice by then).

My reasoning is according to Star Trek Movie Memories, he didn't like the idea of Saavik being a conspirator because the previous movies established her as a "beloved" character. And he thought TVH felt like Star Trek, even though -- according to them -- he still wanted to push the JFK Story down their throat.

Very soft reasoning on my part, I'll admit. I think he would've caved publicly/professionally due to pressure, even though he'd still personally hate it.

 

[BillJ]

I simply don't understand why people keep putting him on some pedestal.

One can be curious without putting someone on a pedestal.

As far as ranking Roddenberry's contributions to the franchise, ends up they were pretty limited (but major). "The Cage", seasons one and two of Star Trek, The Motion Picture and the first handful of TNG episodes were his only real hands on contributions. His health was beginning to dwindle even during the run-up to TNG.

 

[Damian]

This is a very hard question to answer because his own view of what constituted canon could change. I don't think, for instance, he considered the entirety of TFF and TUC non-canon, just certain elements. And the animated series was an on again off again thing. Same with season 3 of the original series. Up to his death I think he considered all of TNG canon.

I see Roddenberry as a good 'ideas' guy. He could come up with a good overall vision but he needed other people to implement those ideas and make them work.

Like most of us, he was a flawed human being. I don't personally put him on a pedestal. He created my favorite franchise. And it's from his creation we have all the spinoffs, movies and everything that goes with them. But it took a lot of talented individuals to make it a reality. He also had a pretty good knack for finding the right people to implement that vision.

he didn't like the idea of Saavik being a conspirator because the previous movies established her as a "beloved" character.

I remember Nicholas Meyer was a bit nonplussed about that since he created the character, not Roddenberry. But Roddenberry eventually won that argument, though not really for the reasons he probably thought. And in that case I agreed with Roddenberry. I'm not sure I would have liked Saavik turned traitor. Something just doesn't feel right about that.

 

[Vger23]

I see Roddenberry as a good 'ideas' guy. He could come up with a good overall vision but he needed other people to implement those ideas and make them work..

I do think that he made some great contributions to re-writes of TOS scripts back in the day. Yes, it made the writers crazy....but it seems that his notes and edits were really instrumental in setting the right tone for the show and keeping the characters consistent.

I remember Nicholas Meyer was a bit nonplussed about that since he created the character, not Roddenberry. But Roddenberry eventually won that argument, though not really for the reasons he probably thought. And in that case I agreed with Roddenberry. I'm not sure I would have liked Saavik turned traitor. Something just doesn't feel right about that.

I thought the move from Saavik to Valeris was more about the inability to pay Alley rather than any argument Gene made...or is that just urban legend?

 

[Kor]

...

I thought the move from Saavik to Valeris was more about the inability to pay Alley rather than any argument Gene made...or is that just urban legend?

Memory Alpha says Meyer was going to go ahead with using the Saavik character despite Roddenberry's objections, but it turned out that it would have been too expensive to hire Alley. So the character was changed.

Kor

 

[Tenacity]

The more influance he had over it, and the more money he personally recieved from it, the more "canon" it would be in his eyes.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Who would like to rank the Star Trek stories that Gene Roddenberry knew in his lifetime in order of how canonical he considered them? Break it down to seasons and films, or groups of seasons and groups of films, or single out episodes, or whatever you want. Just remember you are ranking how canonical HE thought it was, i.e., before he passed (but feel free to go into what he would have thought at different times of his life, if you like). Also, I’m mostly interested in on-screen Star Trek stories, but feel free to include other sources you think he would have considered important. I’m very interested to know.

My impression is something like this:

Star Trek: The Next Generation, Seasons 1-2
Star Trek: The Next Generation, Seasons 3-5
Star Trek: The Motion Picture
Star Trek, Seasons 1-2
Star Trek, Season 3
Star Trek II-IV
Star Trek V
The Animated Adventures of Gene Roddenberry’s Star Trek
Star Trek VI

Apologies in advance if I’m stepping on a sensitive issue. My personal ranking would be very different from what I’m proposing here, but, I thought it would be an interesting thought-experiment, a fun spin. Thanks!

I don't think Roddenberry would consider any of the movies after TMP because he didn't have much of a say in its productions, but he openly enjoyed IV. What I find interesting is Roddenberry's characters are still timeless; he did it with Star Trek and then again with Star Trek: The Next Generation, while other producers who had or currently holds the mantle can't achieve.

 

[Dukhat]

TMP and the first two seasons of TNG. That’s what he’d consider canon. This goes without saying that those two things were probably the least regarded of all televised Trek.

 

[thribs]

Rather well I think.

 

[Greg Cox]

I remember Nicholas Meyer was a bit nonplussed about that since he created the character, not Roddenberry. But Roddenberry eventually won that argument, though not really for the reasons he probably thought. And in that case I agreed with Roddenberry. I'm not sure I would have liked Saavik turned traitor. Something just doesn't feel right about that.

I still wish Saavik had been the traitor. That would have been much more dramatic and surprising.