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Spoilers The Romulans and the Vulcans (spoilers for Ep2 onward).

SG-17

SG-17

Commodore
Commodore
So we now have the Zhat Vash, a secret organization in the heart of Romulan society hellbent on eliminating synthetic life out of fear and hatred due to some mind shattering dark secret they and they alone hold.

The question is, what is that secret?

I don't think that it could be something as simple or mundane as that the Romulans created the Borg.

What if the Romulans or the Vulcans are organic synthetic life (bio-androids from here out)?

What if the Time of Awakening was a synthetic uprising and either the creators or the created were driven from their homeworld? Awakening having a dual meaning in that the servants, the bio-androids were awakened and gained sentience?

Could Pon Farr, the relationship of Vulcans with emotion, their telepathic abilities, their penchant for extreme violence, and their incredible strength and mental acuity be because they, unknowingly to them after thousands of years of biological reproduction and recovery from nuclear annihilation, are bio-androids?

Or could the opposite be the case? The reason the Romulans seem to not posses Pon Farr, telepathic abilities, extreme strength, or trouble with extreme emotions is because they are the bio-androids?

Either way the Zhat Vash seem to know the truth, and hopefully we will too.


I don't think either option would cause problems with canon.
 
SG-17 said:
So we now have the Zhat Vash, a secret organization in the heart of Romulan society hellbent on eliminating synthetic life out of fear and hatred due to some mind shattering dark secret they and they alone hold.

The question is, what is that secret?

I don't think that it could be something as simple or mundane as that the Romulans created the Borg.

What if the Romulans or the Vulcans are organic synthetic life (bio-androids from here out)?

What if the Time of Awakening was a synthetic uprising and either the creators or the created were driven from their homeworld?

Could Pon Farr, the relationship of Vulcans with emotion, their telepathic abilities, their penchant for extreme violence, and their incredible strength and mental acuity be because they, unknowingly to them after thousands of years of biological reproduction and recovery from nuclear annihilation, are bio-androids?

Or could the opposite be the case? The reason the Romulans seem to not posses Pon Farr, telepathic abilities, extreme strength, or trouble with extreme emotions is because they are the bio-androids?

Either way the Zhat Vash seem to know the truth, and hopefully we will too.


I don't think either option would cause problems with canon.
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But it would be right up there in popularity in the fandom with Spock having an adopted step-sister.

Can you imagine the rage that will ignite in some fan circles?
:crazy:
 
DaveyNY said:
But it would be right up there in popularity in the fandom with Spock having an adopted step-sister.

Can you imagine the rage that will ignite in some fan circles?
:crazy:
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The reaction to that was overblown (as was expected tbh), but this idea isn't even close to that. If no one knows about this secret history except for the Zhat Vash then it doesn't interfere with canon in any way.
 
I'm thinking Vulcans are Dahj/Soji-like perfect synths, Surak was the Noonien Soong/Bruce Maddox of his time and Romulans left because they wanted none of what was going on.
 
Maybe the ridges play a role in this. Could be that the romulan population consists of both, natural beings and bioandroids. A reveal that not all Romulans are fleshbags might have disasterous consequences and could be the greatest fear of the Zhat Vash... :vulcan:
 
I love this theory. Considering katras, mind melds and pon farr, I think the Romulans are more likely to be the synths (since they have never been shown to have this ability).
 
I really like this theory as well. It would definitely add an interesting layer to Trek moving forward if the very thing they banned--synthetic life--also happens to be a founding member of the Federation.
 
Given what has been revealed so far, I'm not going to discount this theory, even if I do find it a little bit too close to Battlestar Galactica's storyline of the 13th tribe of humanity being organic synthetics that had learned to how to reproduce biologically.
 
SG-17 said:
What if the Romulans or the Vulcans are organic synthetic life (bio-androids from here out)?
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Not saying it couldn't happen. But it doesn't make a lot of sense that the Vulcans could hide it for so long as part of an interstellar alliance. We've seen episodes where they've been cut open.

I'm in the "it would be really ridiculous" camp.
 
Is there anything interesting to be found when one cuts open an Advanced Synth? Such as, say, a wholly positronic brain or something? So far, we haven't been told.

Timo Saloniemi
 
BillJ said:
Not saying it couldn't happen. But it doesn't make a lot of sense that the Vulcans could hide it for so long as part of an interstellar alliance. We've seen episodes where they've been cut open.

I'm in the "it would be really ridiculous" camp.
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Timo said:
Is there anything interesting to be found when one cuts open an Advanced Synth? Such as, say, a wholly positronic brain or something? So far, we haven't been told.

Timo Saloniemi
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I'm pretty sure that Dr. Jurati mentioned that there wouldn't be any obvious differences between a bio-android and a human, they are constructed entirely of flesh and blood. There might be something different with the brain structure at a deeper level that would show its constructed nature, but we don't know yet. Plus if Vulcans or Romulans have been bio-androids all along there wouldn't be any "creator" race to compare them to and they've spent two thousand years reproducing biologically, after having spent 1500 years recovering from a nuclear holocaust. Remember that the Vulcans don't have a lot of information from the Time of Awakening or the time periods prior to it.

If the Romulans or the Vulcans are the creator race it could explain the anatomical differences and incompatibilities between the species, despite only being separated for 2000 years, as well as the apparent differences in abilities.
 
I would still solidly be in the "they threw shit at a wall to see what stuck" frame of mind.

SG-17 said:
I'm pretty sure that Dr. Jurati mentioned that there wouldn't be any obvious differences between a bio-android and a human, they are constructed entirely of flesh and blood. There might be something different with the brain structure at a deeper level that would show its constructed nature, but we don't know yet. Plus if Vulcans or Romulans have been bio-androids all along there wouldn't be any "creator" race to compare them to and they've spent two thousand years reproducing biologically, after having spent 1500 years recovering from a nuclear holocaust. Remember that the Vulcans don't have a lot of information from the Time of Awakening or the time periods prior to it.

If the Romulans or the Vulcans are the creator race it could explain the anatomical differences and incompatibilities between the species, despite only being separated for 2000 years, as well as the apparent differences in abilities.
Click to expand...
 
The "secret race of bio-androids" raises a lot of questions. Would bio-androids die? If so, why? If they can be engineered, why not fix themselves? If they don't die, their presence can't be much of a secret, can it?

There are some interesting possibilities in this concept, but so far I'm not keen on it for either the Vulcans or the Romulans. I think the original conceit of the Romulans as hot-blooded Vulcans still has a lot to be explored.
 
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If "bio-androids" are so perfect they are indistinguishable from biological organisms - to the point that they can be naturally born, grow old, die, and interbreed with evolved beings - what makes them bio-androids? Wouldn't they just be genetically engineered lifeforms?

I mean, we know there is broad genetic comparability between Romulans/Vulcans and other races. IIRC Romulans were one of the 19 races whose DNA samples helped uncover the message from The Chase as well, which implies strongly they either evolved naturally or had large portions of "natural junk DNA" put into their code.

But yeah, what makes a bio-android a bio-android? Clearly if Dahj was grown in a vat to adulthood, has some positronic element of her brain, and is only three, she's not a natural humanoid. But we absolutely know that's not the case for Romulans.
 
The Zhat Vash is a secret cabal known to only a few by rumor and hushed whispers, and it has been around for thousands of years. Since Romulan society itself is only thousands of years old, it wouldn't be illogical to think that they might date back to the time of the Romulan/Vulcan schism. Perhaps during the wars on ancient Vulcan, artificial lifeforms were used as a weapon, to devastating effect.

Kor
 
Well, why not? Vulcans are real cultural retards, holding on to obscure ceremonies and old-fashioned ways of doing things. This despite them being millennia ahead of humans technologically: they assuredly had starflight before humans had proper candles. A Butlerian Jihad in their past would nicely explain this. Recovering from a global nuclear war would not in itself make technology evil and shunned. Some more active involvement of technology in that destruction is warranted.

But yeah, the cabal is said to date back "thousands upon thousands" of years. Technically, the exodus Romulans can only allocate two of those; the rest must come from the joint civilization back on Vulcan.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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