Spoilers Picard 1x1, "Remembrance"

[Doc Mugatu]

I did t say it was darker, I said it was more grimdark
(Though I had also temporarily forgotten Alien 3. That happens)

Neither Discovery or Picard could truly be classified as "grimdark." Neither take place in a dystopic setting which is a defining feature. In fact, just the opposite, you have relatively dark things happening in a utopian setting and it is that disharmony that creates the drama and suspense while the bleak, violent and disturbing subject matter in a "grimdark" work is actually harmonious.

grimdark
[ˈɡrimˌdärk]
NOUN

1. a genre of fiction, especially fantasy fiction, characterized by disturbing, violent, or bleak subject matter and a dystopian setting.
   "I was super into grimdark when I was in college"

ADJECTIVE

1. (of fiction, especially fantasy fiction) characterized by disturbing, violent, or bleak subject matter and a dystopian setting.
   "there were two series that were too grimdark for me"

 

[AgentCoop]

I disagree in terms of The Motion Picture. It was a pretty good sized crowd showed up to see it's re-release to theaters a few months back. A far bigger crowd than other Fathom Events re-releases I've been to.

I didn't say no one likes it or that it doesn't have a following. I said it wasn't as popular as other Trek films. Which is objectively true.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I had never heard the term "grimdark" before. Looking it up, I really think that we can just utilize the term "dark." "Grimdark" just sounds dumb.

I don't think the term even remotely applies to the vast majority of things people try to put it on, anyway.

Most certainly not to DSC.

 

[cooleddie74]

Even DS9 wasn't that grim. Arguably the bloodiest and most savage moment in the series was when the Dominion ordered the massacres of 800 million Cardassians in revenge for their defection to the Alpha Quadrant Allies and we saw - well, none of the carnage and death. We just heard about it and got to experience Garak's grief and anger at learning of the tragedy.

 

[uberfalcon]

One of the reasons I love it. I don't know what to expect from week to week. Except for a good time.

The Orville is basically TNG with a good laugh thrown-in every now and again ("Just a walk in the park, Kazansky")--I love it

 

[jaime]

Neither Discovery or Picard could truly be classified as "grimdark." Neither take place in a dystopic setting which is a defining feature. In fact, just the opposite, you have relatively dark things happening in a utopian setting and it is that disharmony that creates the drama and suspense while the bleak, violent and disturbing subject matter in a "grimdark" work is actually harmonious.

I think the war crime opening pushed DSC there, and its slowly found a way back in s2

 

[Kor]

I had never heard the term "grimdark" before. Looking it up, I really think that we can just utilize the term "dark." "Grimdark" just sounds dumb.

"Grimdark" is supposed to be more than just plain "dark." It's an excessive level of "dark," to the point of bleak, nihilistic hopelessness for the mere sake of being edgy. And I think it's supposed to sound dumb, as a reflection of the subject matter.

Kor

 

[cooleddie74]

"Grimdark" would be, say, the nuclear war movie Threads. And even that film had a philosophical point to drive home and wasn't bleak and hopeless just for the sake of being edgy. But until and unless Trek becomes The Day After with spaceships and aliens attacking humans then I wouldn't call anything in this franchise "grimdark."

 

[Campe]

"Grimdark" is supposed to be more than just plain "dark." It's an excessive level of "dark," to the point of bleak, nihilistic hopelessness for the mere sake of being edgy. And I think it's supposed to sound dumb, as a reflection of the subject matter.

Fair. It still sounds dumb. And it does not accurately describe Discovery.

 

[fireproof78]

Neither Discovery or Picard could truly be classified as "grimdark." Neither take place in a dystopic setting which is a defining feature. In fact, just the opposite, you have relatively dark things happening in a utopian setting and it is that disharmony that creates the drama and suspense while the bleak, violent and disturbing subject matter in a "grimdark" work is actually harmonious.

Exactly so.

People keep using that word. I don't think it means what they think it means.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

I didn't say no one likes it or that it doesn't have a following. I said it wasn't as popular as other Trek films. Which is objectively true.

How is it objectively true? The Motion Picture (adjusted for inflation) was one of the most profitable and out performed many of the Star Trek features. At worst I'd say one could put it in the middle of the pack. It was certainly superior to TFF, GEN, INS, NEM, Into Darkness, and BEY. It would rank below: TWoK, TVH, TUC, TSFS, FC, and Star Trek (2009).

Btw, Box Office Mojo got shit tanked when Amazon/IMDB bought it. They stripped away much of its functionality. I don't know … maybe you have to subscribe to IMDB Pro.

 

[Campe]

TMP is my favorite. Frankly, I think the "big ones," TWOK, TVH and FC are overrated.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

TMP is my favorite. Frankly, I think the "big ones," TWOK, TVH and FC are overrated.

I disagree with the overrated part, but I am in awe of your guts to say such a thing. You got spunk, kid, The internet hates spunk! (to paraphrase a Mary Tyler Moore episode).

 

[fireproof78]

TMP is my favorite. Frankly, I think the "big ones," TWOK, TVH and FC are overrated.

TUC is my favorite, followed by ST 09, ID, TVH and TWOK. TWOK is overrated in my opinion as well.

The TNG Films are not worth a rewatch, for me.

 

[Campe]

I disagree with the overrated part, but I am in awe of your guts to say such a thing. You got spunk, kid, The internet hates spunk! (to paraphrase a Mary Tyler Moore episode).

Spunk, eh?

Honestly, I think we hold those as these shining ideals for Star Trek to hold up to when they're just okay. TWOK, in particular is nothing special except for a revenge tale with a very heartbreaking ending (that is quickly reversed in the next film and I admittedly shouldn't hold that against the movie, but alas... )

TUC is my favorite, followed by ST 09, ID, TVH and TWOK. TWOK is overrated in my opinion as well.

The TNG Films are not worth a rewatch, for me.

Trek 09 is #2 for me and I do like STID more than most. And yes, everytime I try to watch the TNG films... I just can't anymore.

 

[fireproof78]

TWOK, in particular is nothing special except for a revenge tale with a very heartbreaking ending

Yeah, the emotional impact is what drives that film. It is constructed very well but it isn't on my go to list.

More frustratingly is the long shadow TWOK cast over the franchise.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Isa Briones is supposed to be in 8 episodes, so we haven't seen the last of Dahj and perhaps we'll see multiple 'Dahjs.'

Maybe they'll be playing Dahj ball.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

Maybe they'll be playing Dahj ball.

Are you starting a Nhan-like thread here, too?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What, you mean like "was her favorite baseball team the Los Angeles Dahjers"?

 

[Danja]

Isa Briones is supposed to be in 8 episodes, so we haven't seen the last of Dahj and perhaps we'll see multiple 'Dahjs.'

I guess we'll find out soon

She's also playing Soji.