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Spoilers Spyfall, Part Two grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Spyfall, Part Two?

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UnEarthly child would figure as Untimely Child if we conflated the two things... Which sounds like we're talking about Abortion.

For the last time... The Master is Susan.
 
Guy Gardener said:
UnEarthly child would figure as Untimely Child if we conflated the two things... Which sounds like we're talking about Abortion.

For the last time... The Master is Susan.
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[luke]
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/luke]
 
Awesome Possum said:
I wonder if whatever made the Master destroy Gallifrey is what made him and the Doctor the only two Time Lords to rebel against them in the first place. He implied that it has been hidden from them and buried in their personalities. Maybe on some level that’s what made them different and want to leave.
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There are other renegades. (Which is I think the official term on Gallifrey for non-returning gap year students) The Rani, The Monk, The War Chief, Drax, Romana, probably The Corsair. Since a lot of Eighth Doctor stuff is in, there’s the possibility of Brax and Ace too.
 
Emperor-Tiberius said:
I also want to point out how this two-parter, while being dedicated to Terrance Dicks, also destroys the Time Lords, whom the late author was a big fan of and was actually a huge fan of Moffat bringing them back in Day of the Doctor.

Still, at least Moffat took their eradication off the Doctor's hands, so that counts for something.
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I felt it jarring to see that dedication in an episode/serial in which the Doctor broke several of the Uncle Terry edicts, managing both cruel and cowardly.
 
The Scrooge Doctor said:
I've been hoping for that since "The End of Time." At this point, I don't think we'll ever see Susan (or Romana or....) again. :(
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I, too, have been hoping for both of them. The lack of interest in bringing them back is inexplicable.

I particularly would like to see Susan back. The series can examine their relationship much better now than it ever did in the early days. Is she really his grand daughter? And what's their back story? I think that's both interesting enough but also a manageable story to tell compared to recasting Gallifreyan Lore as a whole.
 
Every time the timeline "changes" Susan ignores it.

How long could she have survived on the Earth where Sutek ripped the atmosphere off?
 
The Scrooge Doctor said:
I've been hoping for that since "The End of Time." At this point, I don't think we'll ever see Susan (or Romana or....) again. :(
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Susan, Romana, The Rani, Rassilon, Jenny and probably The Valeyard are all still out there.

That may not be the plan at the moment, but some writer down the line will decide to use them and retcon them back into existence.
 
Spyfall Part 2
The second episode of Series 12. The episode picks up where the previous episode left off, with the Doctor in the Not Upside Down. However, she meets someone there, who she follows to 1834, and who she discovers to be Ada Lovelace! More about Ada (along with someone else) below. Meanwhile, the 'Fam' find a way to survive the loss of the cockpit in the plane. More about that below. And meanwhile, the Master is aboard his TARDIS in flight, chewing Barton out. More about the Master and Barton below.
All three intros were done well. First, the Doctor and Ada. The Doctor 'fangirling' about Ada (and later Noor Khan) was done well. And Ada being able to adapt to help the Doctor against the Master's schemes in 1834, and in 1943 was done rather well. The Doctor outwitting the Master by outing him as a spy to the Nazis was not too over the top. The Doc saving the 'Fam' was reminiscent of Bill Preston and Ted Logan doing something similar in the Bill and Ted movies. However, I'm not sure what to make of the Doctor erasing Ada and Noor's memories of the adventure.
If there is a weak part to the episode, it is with the Fam, like their escapades have little to do with what the Doctor is doing with Ada and Noor. (Graham's question was quite apt. He had been replaced, temporarily). Their running from Barton (and the authorities) was done well, but I'm not sure what to make of 'Laser Shoes'. Will they keep showing up through the series? The most pertinent part is them realising they know the Doctor little and finding out more about her at the end (albeit, not about Gallifrey's new fate, see below).
Barton and the Master using the Kasaavin aliens to overwrite humanity, via VOR's technology? Interesting idea, but aspects have been done before, e.g. The Bells of Saint John. Barton saying Humanity will end was an interesting part. However the real elephant in the room is Gallifrey, with the Master saying he destroyed the Time Lord civilisation because of a great lie at the founding of that civilisation. The Timeless Child. Not sure what to make of this. Overall a good episode. More in the two parter overall review.
8.5/10.
 
One tiny thing I noticed:

See the Master's holo-message to the Doctor at the end of this ep - for some reason, he is wearing Second Doctor-esque checked pants, which we never saw him in previously.

Now back in part 1, when we first meet Daniel Barton, he has his PR exec with him, a short nebbishy guy who is also wearing checked pants and a bow tie in a very Second Doctor-ish style. Was that PR guy actually the Master, working closely with and keeping an eye on Barton all the time? Obviously he didn't look like the Master we later see...

...but then this episode establishes that the Master was using a perception filter so that he didn't look like a dark-skinned man to his fellow Nazis. He would have had to look white. So is the nebbishy PR guy actually what the Nazis saw? And also what Yaz and Ryan saw in part 1, because they're only humans and wouldn't see through the Master's perception filter like the Doctor did?

.
 
lvsxy808 said:
One tiny thing I noticed:

See the Master's holo-message to the Doctor at the end of this ep - for some reason, he is wearing Second Doctor-esque checked pants, which we never saw him in previously.

Now back in part 1, when we first meet Daniel Barton, he has his PR exec with him, a short nebbishy guy who is also wearing checked pants and a bow tie in a very Second Doctor-ish style. Was that PR guy actually the Master, working closely with and keeping an eye on Barton all the time? Obviously he didn't look like the Master we later see...

...but then this episode establishes that the Master was using a perception filter so that he didn't look like a dark-skinned man to his fellow Nazis. He would have had to look white. So is the nebbishy PR guy actually what the Nazis saw? And also what Yaz and Ryan saw in part 1, because they're only humans and wouldn't see through the Master's perception filter like the Doctor did?

.
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He was originally a Master of disguise. In World Enough And Time as well. "Do you still like disguises?"
 
The Master and Gallifrey
Of course, the Master on a rampage on Gallifrey would trigger an evacuation. Many Time Lords would have escaped. Other Time Lords may have escaped after the Twelfth Doctor pulled off his coup in Hell Bent. Plenty of time. 75 years at minimum. (24 at Darillium, another 50 while Missy was in the Vault, 7 months while collaborating with the Monks...) Also plenty of time for Clara to return to the extraction chamber after her 'long way round' trip. (And Ashildr/Me would still be out there in the Diner TARDIS.)
Not sure where the Timeless Child thread is leading though... It will be interesting to find out.
 
Taking a sharp left turn - how many Tardises are actually 'out there' at the moment.

Surmising that The Time Lords mostly withdrew to Gallifrey and their Tardises were destroyed in the attack, we still know The Doctor now has hers AND The Master's.

Any more ?
 
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