Two words: Doctor-Donna
Spoilers Spyfall, Part Two grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Two words: Doctor-Donna
Yes, but she was wiped because the accumulation of Time Lord knowledge was going to blow her mind. Not because historical characters shouldn’t get any insight into the future.
It was ok I guess but it's hard to care about an enemy which consists of nothing but bright lights with inconsistent use of their powers.
While I like the concept of Interdimensional aliens having spies all across the Universe, I don't see why the story needed The Master. His/Her arc was done so well at the end of Capaldi's reign and to return so quick seems MEH. The destruction of Galifrey is a completely unnecessary rehash of a storyline played out under RDT and Moffat for over a decade. Chris Chibnall seems intent on ignoring as much of Doctor Who's past as possible and making the show a full on reboot rather than a continuation with a new coat of paint.
I like Jodie, I like the Doctor, I like the crew but for the first time in 15 years, I don't like the showrunner.
While I like the concept of Interdimensional aliens having spies all across the Universe, I don't see why the story needed The Master. His/Her arc was done so well at the end of Capaldi's reign and to return so quick seems MEH. The destruction of Galifrey is a completely unnecessary rehash of a storyline played out under RDT and Moffat for over a decade. Chris Chibnall seems intent on ignoring as much of Doctor Who's past as possible and making the show a full on reboot rather than a continuation with a new coat of paint.
I like Jodie, I like the Doctor, I like the crew but for the first time in 15 years, I don't like the showrunner.
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I just saw both parts and I agree with you that this story didn't need The Master in it. I thought the aliens were mysterious and threatening (I was suspecting they would turn out to be Cybermen, which maybe isn't the case), but I don't see why they would need the Master's help at all. Further, I don't see why Barton would either. It made the Master feel more tacked on.
I was iffy on Sacha Dhawan's performance. I had sort of been spoiled about who he might have really been, so the big twist wasn't that shocking to me, but I still think that Dhawan handled that twist quite well. I thought he did a good job as O, but his Master was seesawing between being a chilling villain and then one too over-the-top. It was like he was too manic too much at times. I do think Dhawan and Jodie Whittaker have good chemistry. So far, though, I liked Dhawan as Davos in Iron Fist more than as the Master. I wish he had infused his Master with some of how his take on Davos was.
I'm not really a Whovian like that, so far as I was concerned it was a decent season premiere. Not perfect. I mean the chase and shootout with Barton made no sense. Also I think the show could use some better artistic design. I wasn't impressed with the Time Lord tech from a design perspective.
Overall, I do think it had too many villains in it. I think Barton, The Master, and the aliens all could've been compelling villains in separate episodes.
The show still seems to be aiming in the same direction as the previous season, though thus far, it's nailing the execution a bit better. Still, I'm not thrilled with this new lore-heavy, continuity-light approach. Riffing on prior years (and decades) of the show, but ignoring or leap-frogging what's more recent, I feel like it muddles theme and characterization. Like, I felt like the Moffat years were in dialog with the RTD years, but it's starting to seem like Chibnall's era is a bit more "Classic Who, tell the Moffat/RTD eras I liked it better when the Master shrunk people," while they're all sitting around the same dinner table.
Like, one of the major arcs for the Twelfth Doctor was learning Memory Wiping Is Serious Business Not To Be Taken Lightly, both with what happens with Clara, and the fact that him still being hurt by it is why he decides to start traveling with Bill when she unintentionally called him out on it, but now the Doctor is back to doing it like it's no big thing, probably more casually than ever. Saving Gallifrey was set up as the Doctor's crowning achievement, their greatest act of heroism reaching across the length of the show/his life, and now it's undone as a mystery hook, and we're back to the Doctor making glib excuses when companions ask to visit. The Master had a huge arc very recently, and there isn't even a meaningful glance alluding to it.
And it'd be super-easy to turn the Master bad again! All the pieces were already there; the Doctor was guarding Missy on the grounds that even a totally-for-sure-dead Time Lord could, conceivably, still regenerate. Say Missy was there on the Mondasian ship on the edge of death for centuries, slowly going mad (again) while stuck in her own head, blaming the Doctor for not coming after her after his big speech, boom, Master is evil again and the Doctor gets to feel guilty about it. Dribble it out a bit, let that be a mystery rather than having another damn arc-word.
Like, one of the major arcs for the Twelfth Doctor was learning Memory Wiping Is Serious Business Not To Be Taken Lightly, both with what happens with Clara, and the fact that him still being hurt by it is why he decides to start traveling with Bill when she unintentionally called him out on it, but now the Doctor is back to doing it like it's no big thing, probably more casually than ever. Saving Gallifrey was set up as the Doctor's crowning achievement, their greatest act of heroism reaching across the length of the show/his life, and now it's undone as a mystery hook, and we're back to the Doctor making glib excuses when companions ask to visit. The Master had a huge arc very recently, and there isn't even a meaningful glance alluding to it.
And it'd be super-easy to turn the Master bad again! All the pieces were already there; the Doctor was guarding Missy on the grounds that even a totally-for-sure-dead Time Lord could, conceivably, still regenerate. Say Missy was there on the Mondasian ship on the edge of death for centuries, slowly going mad (again) while stuck in her own head, blaming the Doctor for not coming after her after his big speech, boom, Master is evil again and the Doctor gets to feel guilty about it. Dribble it out a bit, let that be a mystery rather than having another damn arc-word.
That's just racism.
Oh, duh! I knew that felt familiar! Thanks for the reminder.
I gave it a 6, with the first ep getting a 7. I wasn't that thrilled about it, and the only thing that got my attention was the Master's comments about their race being "built on a lie."
Sigh. I miss the days of Eccleston and Tennant.
Sigh. I miss the days of Eccleston and Tennant.
This was my main issue with the episode, I did enjoy part 2 but wiping out the Timelords just makes Day of the Doctor pointless.
I like the new Master but he is annoying when he goes manic.
A 7 from me and I look forward to non Chibnall episodes.
Overnight viewing figure 4.60 million so slightly down on NYD. Given the short span between episodes it's possible a lot of people might be waiting till both are available on iPlayer. As people have said, the overall figures will be the most telling, but the first two episodes of S12 are still lower than any overnights from S11 (inc. Resolution)
It is kind of explainable by the Gallifrey situation though.
He's been through/done a lot...
The timelords suck and the show is better without them so I'm fine with wiping them out again, hopefully for good this time.
I am happy enough for them not to be around anymore, but it's the off screen they're dead that bugs me, especially after a multi-doctor special to save them.
Writers of New Who really must hate the Timelords because they keep trashing Gallifrey. Can we not do this again please it's annoying?
But oh look you twits did do it again. This time you wiped out the whole planet and everything is in ruins. It's bad enough they changed Galifrey from a planet covered in domes to the bottle city of Kandor ripoff.
So not happy that they trashed Gallifrey.
Rant over.
Part two was for the most part enjoyable. I wish we had been given more time and more of Ada Lovelace and Noor Khan but it is what it is and I wonder if we'll see them again or they were just throwaway people we'll never see again. Barton is part of this series arc and I'm calling it he ties into the final episode of this series. Just you watch.
Well I like this version of the Master even if it's a little too over the top, they dialed the nutso up to 11 with this incarnation. Nice to see the shrinky thing back.
But oh look you twits did do it again. This time you wiped out the whole planet and everything is in ruins. It's bad enough they changed Galifrey from a planet covered in domes to the bottle city of Kandor ripoff.
So not happy that they trashed Gallifrey.
Rant over.
Part two was for the most part enjoyable. I wish we had been given more time and more of Ada Lovelace and Noor Khan but it is what it is and I wonder if we'll see them again or they were just throwaway people we'll never see again. Barton is part of this series arc and I'm calling it he ties into the final episode of this series. Just you watch.
Well I like this version of the Master even if it's a little too over the top, they dialed the nutso up to 11 with this incarnation. Nice to see the shrinky thing back.
This is going to be a fun series.
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I felt the episode was a little better, but they still do too much on the woke garbage and it's not right that they basically pulled a Sequel Trilogy and wiped out the results of the 50th anniversary special. I felt like they certainly borrowed some story from previous episodes. Whether or not people like the time lords is one thing, but the whole point of the special was to bring them back. The writers don't seem to have a grasp on the show based on how I've enjoyed it since the reboot. It had a very Last Jedi vibe to it, and that is not a good thing. I hate the idea of doing this, but this may be my last season until they get a new doctor and writing team.
I'm still waiting to watch both parts at once, but have been massively spoiled. Is there any actual evidence of Gallifrey being wiped out, or just the Master's word?
Rule #1, #2, #3 and #4, the Master lies.
Rule #1, #2, #3 and #4, the Master lies.