As fan of Finn I have to say say this is sadly true. Especially in TLJ in which the stereotyping of goofy and cowardly got worse.
It was like seeing g a film in the 80's or 90' s.
Spoilers Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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As fan of Finn I have to say say this is sadly true. Especially in TLJ in which the stereotyping of goofy and cowardly got worse.
It was like seeing g a film in the 80's or 90' s.
Except she's not in a creative position.
The only question that matters is does Disney believe it is her fault, and will replacing her make for a better product?
Yeah, that wipes away the constant bulldozing of Luke's character in TLJ, including the very un-Jedi like, paranoid act of trying to kill a sleeping Ben, when he--like Obi-Wan with Anakin--would have tried to reason with him before the situation turned to violence. That never happened on screen.
Mm-kay.
@Campe98... perhaps sabotage is a bit hyperbolic, but in my opinion, there was an intent on Johnson's part.
He was given full creative control for TLJ. Sure it had to go through Kathleen Kennedy, Bob Iger, etc... so there were many people involved, but Johnson came up with the story. Obviously there wasn't a full script ready for Ep 8, but I assume there had to be ideas for going forward from Abrams and Kasdan for Ep 8 and 9. It doesn't take a genius to see what they (Abrams and Kasdan) were alluding to regarding the various plot elements of TFA (Rey's connection to Anakin's lightsaber, the Knights of Ren, Snoke, Luke's disapperance, etc...). Furthermore you had a very active fanbase picking out these elements and predicting where they might lead.
So Johnson, while writing TLJ, has the notes (or at least ideas) from Abrams and Kasdan, he knows of the fan ideas (many of which were pretty good and were a seemly good fit of the overall narrative), decides to subvert expectations and toss all of that aside and give us a plodding story, zero character growth from our heroes and Luke, a once great leader, now a broken and heartless SOB who very nearly murdered his own nephew.
Regarding Luke, I get what Johnson was trying to do... he was trying to setup Luke as the fallen hero and reluctant mentor who would again find his way, but wow, did he miss the mark. Even Mark Hamil had issues with the script (though I think he tried to walk some of the criticism back).
Anyway, Johnson knew the options in front of him; He had to have known about the general plot ideas setup for the remaining films, yet he abandoned them. He had to know that tearing down a character like Luke Skywalker would have repercussions with many in the fanbase, and yet he did it anyway.
Again, I don't know the reasons why, but Johnson clearly chose to flip everything established in TFA and SW in general on its head, consequences be damned.
He was given full creative control for TLJ. Sure it had to go through Kathleen Kennedy, Bob Iger, etc... so there were many people involved, but Johnson came up with the story. Obviously there wasn't a full script ready for Ep 8, but I assume there had to be ideas for going forward from Abrams and Kasdan for Ep 8 and 9. It doesn't take a genius to see what they (Abrams and Kasdan) were alluding to regarding the various plot elements of TFA (Rey's connection to Anakin's lightsaber, the Knights of Ren, Snoke, Luke's disapperance, etc...). Furthermore you had a very active fanbase picking out these elements and predicting where they might lead.
So Johnson, while writing TLJ, has the notes (or at least ideas) from Abrams and Kasdan, he knows of the fan ideas (many of which were pretty good and were a seemly good fit of the overall narrative), decides to subvert expectations and toss all of that aside and give us a plodding story, zero character growth from our heroes and Luke, a once great leader, now a broken and heartless SOB who very nearly murdered his own nephew.
Regarding Luke, I get what Johnson was trying to do... he was trying to setup Luke as the fallen hero and reluctant mentor who would again find his way, but wow, did he miss the mark. Even Mark Hamil had issues with the script (though I think he tried to walk some of the criticism back).
Anyway, Johnson knew the options in front of him; He had to have known about the general plot ideas setup for the remaining films, yet he abandoned them. He had to know that tearing down a character like Luke Skywalker would have repercussions with many in the fanbase, and yet he did it anyway.
Again, I don't know the reasons why, but Johnson clearly chose to flip everything established in TFA and SW in general on its head, consequences be damned.
Michelle Rejwan is LFL's Senior VP of Live Action Development and Production.
Agreed. The point that keeps continually being dismissed when blamed is that this is STILL a business.
Under Disney, Lucasfilm has, to date, made three films that have grossed more than $1 billion worldwide at the box office. Yup, Solo flopped. Its certainly still to be seen if TRoS will pass that line, but as long as it keeps doing so, Kathleen Kennedy is likely going to keep her job if she wants it. But as I've said elsewhere: How many times has Alex Kurtzman been fired from Star Trek now? I kinda put that in the same regard. The Mouse is as happy with Kennedy as the Eye is with Kurtzman, DESPITE some fan reaction. But, TRoS did pull in $29 million yesterday (with only a 27% drop from the weekend... into their respective first Mondays, Rogue One and TLJ both had 50+% drops and TFA had 33% drop) and is currently sitting at $433.4 million globally. That's not a bad starting point. But we'll see. Cautious optimism here but well-prepared for it to have a steep drop off.
He made the movie he wanted to make, with the blessing of Lucasfilm and Disney.
I think it'll end up in the $850-900 million dollar range (tickets sold). Without budget and marketing numbers, plus any tax incentives, we have no clue how whether it will be profitable during its theatrical run. It will definitely make a decent profit when all is said and done.
I think it is amazing it is doing as well as it has considering the bad press that has followed the sequel trilogy for pretty much the entirety of its run. Across three films, it will still do well over four billion dollars.
The Emperor was making children out of nothing, related to no one.
I thought a huge part of Rogue One was that the Empire was mining/hoarding crystals to power the Death Star laser. Also, we see a crystal in Luke's lightsaber when it breaks in half in TLJ.
Did the Emperor make Anakin? So, maybe the Skywalker saga was his to end, since he started it.
I think it’s mentioned in a deleted scene. But it’s identified as a kyber crystal in the visual guide. The Ersos did a lot of research into kyber crystals and Jyn’s mother was a member of a religion devoted to the Force. The necklace is engraved with “Trust in the Force”. I have a replica.
And we have the fan cripe from tfa that it was a recycled mess... So they probably asked rian to shake it up a Bit and be original. So he did.. It succeeded and failed .. So now fan wank yells original is bad.. So it's back to unoriginal stuff..
So fans .. Congrats.. There trying to give you what I want and ur still griping.. So..
So fans .. Congrats.. There trying to give you what I want and ur still griping.. So..
If they had remained as archetypes then there would be no investment in the characters. Their story would have been over after the first film. Instead, Luke and Han and them go through significant character development in their struggles, making them more than just the archetypes of Star Wars.
I disagree with the whole "washout" description. They are people who fought hard for something and watched part of it crumble. And many struggle with depression and feelings of failure. It isn't deconstruction to demonstrate that these are very human characters who don't succeed at every turn.
It is only a paper tiger if you are not willing to recognize what the growth that was undergone from ESB to TLJ, and what profound psychological affect would occur within 30 years.
Asking them to remain "simple archetypes" is asking for a static story.
No, he didn't. He built upon mythological and psychological tradition of a reluctant mentor struggling with his own legend, and feelings of failure. That is a classic of storytelling that Star Wars is built upon as the Hero's Journey.
It may not be for everyone, but not every story is for every one. And that's OK. Certainly people do not enjoy the original telling of Robin Hood, or Man in the Iron Mask, and would rather have the heroes living. But, that is not mythology.
I am still blown away by the obtuseness of missing this point.
Quite right. He wasn't some rogue filmmaker who cackled evily over taking the script and dumping it in to the trash, playing a violin while it burned. He demonstrated a willingness to tell his story, to explore facets and powers explored in the books but not on screen, as well as explore a theme of one's place and personal failure.
Yeah, but he doesn't "get" Star Wars...
Please. All I see is a desire to keep Star Wars static. It's the same thing I see with Star Trek. A wish for it to never change, to remain forever as we remember it, through nostalgic lens. If Star Wars and Star Trek were our friends we would not expect our friends to remain static for 50+ years. Yet, that is what we expect of things we "love."
And we have the fan cripe from tfa that it was a recycled mess... So they probably asked rian to shake it up a Bit and be original. So he did.. It succeeded and failed .. So now fan wank yells original is bad.. So it's back to unoriginal stuff..
So fans .. Congrats.. There trying to give you what I want and ur still griping.. So..
Which is why their "criticism" can no longer be taken seriously. It carries no weight because they don't know what they want.
We live in a capitalist system.
The customer is always right.
Companies that forget that and dont give the customer what they want go bust.
It if all well and good making arty farty pretentious films that pleass critics. But if your targeted audience rejects them then eventually you are going to go bust.
I've worked in retail and I've worked in banking. The customer is never right, if they were always right every business would go bust.
He had an air supply on Exogol. He was all out of love.
It was a top grossing film. I wish to be rejected so hard.
Also this.
Customers are often manipulative of retailers with no understanding of what is given
