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Alex Kurtzman on the Fine Line Between Adding to, and Staying True to, Star Trek's Canon

(The existence of ENT and DSC in no way invalidates TOS for me. No moreso than the existence of any other inconsistency invalidates any other part of the franchise I like.
Exactly so. One thing for me, more so than other franchises, is that Star Trek is an imagining of humanity's future. It isn't just its own separate thing, a world imagined outside of Earth. It is very much tied to current humanity, technological development and growth.

Thus, a re-imagining is inevitable, because humanity has grown in the past 50 years in technological know-how, understanding of science and capability.

I get it. People love the aesthetic of TOs and would like to see it. But, the aesthetic has always taken a back seat to moving forward with technological abilities. I know it's a worn out argument but I keep going back to it because it demonstrates the principle in action. Both TMP and TWOK demonstrated a moving forward of aesthetic, either uniform or ship, because more money was available to do so.

I might not agree with the design choices. The TMP uniforms are fairly ugly, aside from a couple of exceptions. I certainly would not have gone the way with the Discovery style uniforms. But, their mere existence doesn't automatically make it a problem.
 
But again you’re assuming that Star Trek couldn’t breathe without returning to Kirk’s setting, which is why it has to be reimagined rather than left to fade away into the past as the future timeline moves in tandem with ours (eg. if PIC’s 2399 now maps to 2020, them 2400 would be 2021 and so on, farther and farther away from Kirk’s era with only gradual updates to keep the 25th-century society/tech in sync with ours).
 
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They had more primitive consoles, engines, weapons, no shields, more submarine and less hotel interiors (compared to the D), a more clunky warp core, speed limits of a fraction of voyager's, barely any force fields, barely any universal translators, and just started beaming people.


But those animated LCD screens! Too advanced for TOS! It should have just been lit up still images of space or a chart.

I can’t help but think all this talk of “invalidation” has to do with how the TOS bridge truly doesn’t hold up to today’s production values, and some that don’t want to admit it. Accepting DSC Enterprise is perceived as “an admission” of TOS being “outdated”, this an insult to the original show. This is why certain fans would prefer we never look back on the 23rd century, because that means having to confront how dated it looks. Whether it’s the jelly beans on TOS consoles or the blown out CRT monitors of TUC bridge, it doesn’t look like the future anymore from 2020.

And frankly that’s fine. Let them be a product of their time. They’re just pretend. Make believe.
 
Anyone can see it’s dated, just as anyone can see that the traditional, risky solution was not to give fans the obvious: familiar characters and setting forever. Just as Doctor Who kept counting up the Doctors, Star Trek was supposed to be leaving previous eras behind, generating better iterations than those that came before.
 
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They had more primitive consoles

No they didn't.


They could go warp 5, which made absolutely no difference in storytelling, since they could go to the Klingon homeworld (in the Beta Quadrant) and back in four days.


Phase pistols instead of phasers. No difference.

no shields

Polarizing the hull plating instead of shields. No difference.

more submarine and less hotel interiors (compared to the D)

It looked nothing like the interior of a submarine.

a more clunky warp core

Nothing clunky about it.

speed limits of a fraction of voyager's

See above note about engines.

barely any force fields

See above note about shields.

barely any universal translators

All the aliens spoke English, so who cares?

and just started beaming people.

I'll give you that one, although the transporter worked just fine every time they used it.
 
But again you’re assuming that Star Trek couldn’t breathe without returning to Kirk’s setting, which is why it has to be reimagined rather than left to fade away into the past as the future timeline moves in tandem with ours (eg. if PIC’s 2399 now maps to 2020, them 2400 would be 2021 and so on, farther and farther away from Kirk’s era with only gradual updates to keep the 25th-century society/tech in sync with ours).
I would rather it be rebooted, because I don't care for the 25th century thus far.

I don't want it to map to our century. I want to re-imagine humanity's future based upon current technological understanding.
 
But those animated LCD screens! Too advanced for TOS! It should have just been lit up still images of space or a chart.
TOS screens just weren't animated cause it wasn't necessary. In ENT they showed that these screens can show animation. They just never had to in TOS.

No they didn't.
They could go warp 5, which made absolutely no difference in storytelling, since they could go to the Klingon homeworld (in the Beta Quadrant) and back in four days.
Phase pistols instead of phasers. No difference.
Polarizing the hull plating instead of shields. No difference.
It looked nothing like the interior of a submarine.
Nothing clunky about it.
See above note about engines.
See above note about shields.
All the aliens spoke English, so who cares?
I'll give you that one, although the transporter worked just fine every time they used it.
You can find fixed 20th century PC keyboard type consoles equally advanced as curved reconfigurable touchscreens, and >10x faster equally fast (we are in the Beta quadrant 50% of each year), and see no difference between weaker phase weapons that can't disintegrate or vaporize people and stronger nadion EM weapons that can disintegrate or vaporize people and rocks (someone look up the energy output of those ;)), weak hull reinforcement equal to high-density graviton distortion fields far away from the hull, bulky hatches and small spartan rooms no different from thin and wide doors and large comfortable rooms, a thick and massive warp core just as thin as an actually thin warp core, polarized outer hull plating just the same as internal forcefields, Hoshi's translation work as non-existent, and Erickson's son as not tragically lost the way he was - and then I can find all of that insane. ;)
 
You can find fixed 20th century PC keyboard type consoles equally advanced as curved reconfigurable touchscreens, and >10x faster equally fast (we are in the Beta quadrant 50% of each year), and see no difference between weaker phase weapons that can't disintegrate or vaporize people and stronger nadion EM weapons that can disintegrate or vaporize people and rocks (someone look up the energy output of those ;)), weak hull reinforcement equal to high-density graviton distortion fields far away from the hull, bulky hatches and small spartan rooms no different from thin and wide doors and large comfortable rooms, a thick and massive warp core just as thin as an actually thin warp core, polarized outer hull plating just the same as internal forcefields, Hoshi's translation work as non-existent, and Erickson's son as not tragically lost the way he was - and then I can find all of that insane. ;)

Umm, no.
 
They could go warp 5, which made absolutely no difference in storytelling, since they could go to the Klingon homeworld (in the Beta Quadrant) and back in four days.
And the Enterprise-E could get from the Neutral Zone to Earth in about 5 minutes in First Contact. Things move at the speed of plot. But it is explicitly stated that the NX-01 moves slower than future ships.

Phase pistols instead of phasers. No difference.
A difference of strength and intensity. Phase pistols are an earlier version of phasers.

Polarizing the hull plating instead of shields. No difference.
Reinforcing the hull vs. creating a protective bubble around the ship. Big difference.

It looked nothing like the interior of a submarine.
Sure it did. Staircases, spartan quarters, consoles crammed into every spare bit of space.

Nothing clunky about it.

See above note about engines.
Just look at it. It's different.

See above note about shields.
They literally design the force field in the episode "Vox Sola". It's new technology for them.

All the aliens spoke English, so who cares?
We constantly heard aliens speaking in their native tongues, or saw Hoshi translating what they were saying. As far as I remember, the Xindi-Insectoids and Xindi-Aquatics were always subtitled.

I'll give you that one, although the transporter worked just fine every time they used it.
Did you really want another transporter malfunction story?
 
But again you’re assuming that Star Trek couldn’t breathe without returning to Kirk’s setting, which is why it has to be reimagined rather than left to fade away into the past as the future timeline moves in tandem with ours (eg. if PIC’s 2399 now maps to 2020, them 2400 would be 2021 and so on, farther and farther away from Kirk’s era with only gradual updates to keep the 25th-century society/tech in sync with ours).

And you're again assuming that your preferred solution is a perfectly unimpeachable idea that will never run into any issues of its own. Star Trek has had to update its visuals multiple times already and it will have to keep doing so many times in the future. If it is required to make great leaps forward in time every single time a major visual update is needed, it's going to be in the 30th century and beyond within my lifetime. And its technological advancement is not going to keep pace with centuries worth of change because it will always be limited by the imagination of present day writers and technology.

There is a limit to how many times you can just jump forward in time with the same basic show before it turns into a bad meme - 'every Trek is just the same time period with a new coat of paint'/'wow those Federation scientists never really discover much, do they?'. This is not a permanently workable, long-term solution.

And that's without even getting into the fact that you will eventually be causing exactly the same problems people have with the prequels, anyway, because the franchise has repeatedly shown specific glimpses of those long-off futures already.
 
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And the Enterprise-E could get from the Neutral Zone to Earth in about 5 minutes in First Contact. Things move at the speed of plot. But it is explicitly stated that the NX-01 moves slower than future ships.

You do realize that "things move at the speed of plot" and "the NX-01 moves slower than future ships" are two contradictory statements?

A difference of strength and intensity.

When was that ever stated? A phase pistol and a phaser are guns that shoot a beam of light that stuns or kills an opponent. They're for all intents and purposes the same thing.

Reinforcing the hull vs. creating a protective bubble around the ship. Big difference.

You mean one type of science-fictionny thingy vs. another type of science-fictionny thingy that does the exact same job of preventing shots from hitting the ship's hull? Not seeing the difference.

Sure it did. Staircases, spartan quarters, consoles crammed into every spare bit of space.

You must have watched a different show than I did, because it was nothing of the sort. Google "submarine interior" and compare pics of that with pics of the NX-01 interior. They're not even remotely close.

Just look at it. It's different.

They're both containers that store the dilithium crystals and the matter/antimatter intermix chamber. The only difference is the shape.

They literally design the force field in the episode "Vox Sola". It's new technology for them.

I'll take your word for that, since I don't recall that episode.

We constantly heard aliens speaking in their native tongues, or saw Hoshi translating what they were saying. As far as I remember, the Xindi-Insectoids and Xindi-Aquatics were always subtitled.

Any aliens that communicated directly with the NX-01 crew spoke English 90% of the time. The Xindi insects and aquatics did not communicate directly with humans AFAIK. And I think I can count on one hand the amount of 'translating' Hoshi ever did.

Did you really want another transporter malfunction story?

Not sure what that nonsequitor has to do with anything.
 
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If it is required to make great leaps forward in time every single time a major visual update is needed, it's going to be in the 30th century and beyond within my lifetime.

You have this idea of constant jumps whereas I keep describing a future timeline that moves forward at the same rate as our own, which is what the Bermanverse used. The 1987/88 season mapped to 2364, 1988/89 to 2365 and so forth, all the way through the end of VGR. The movies used a slight variation where 1994 mapped to 2371, 1996 to 2373, 1998 to 2375, 2002 to 2379. You’d be introducing gradual updates as our real-world context evolves: the current network TV season would’ve begun in 2396 and this year’s TNG movie would’ve been set later in the year.

That’s not too far off from PIC’s supposed 2399, so why not keep that going at least? All it means is that productions couldn’t have their cake and eat it too, in that revisiting Kirk would mean revisiting an earlier state of the franchise, whereas the everyday goal would be to make newer and better Star Trek that doesn’t get a free ride on someone else’s successes. No behind-the-scenes featurettes where a former fan can’t believe they got to reimagine Spock, only focus on one’s own iteration which would recognize the long history of Star Trek and try to make an essential contribution in parallel.
 
You have this idea of constant jumps whereas I keep describing a future timeline that moves forward at the same rate as our own, which is what the Bermanverse used. The 1987/88 season mapped to 2364, 1988/89 to 2365 and so forth, all the way through the end of VGR. The movies used a slight variation where 1994 mapped to 2371, 1996 to 2373, 1998 to 2375, 2002 to 2379. You’d be introducing gradual updates as our real-world context evolves: the current network TV season would’ve begun in 2396 and this year’s TNG movie would’ve been set later in the year.

That’s not too far off from PIC’s supposed 2399, so why not keep that going at least? All it means is that productions couldn’t have their cake and eat it too, in that revisiting Kirk would mean revisiting an earlier state of the franchise, whereas the everyday goal would be to make newer and better Star Trek that doesn’t get a free ride on someone else’s successes. No behind-the-scenes featurettes where a former fan can’t believe they got to reimagine Spock, only focus on one’s own iteration which would recognize the long history of Star Trek and try to make an essential contribution in parallel.

That really only works as long as you can keep things moving forward. Which you can't do indefinitely. Every franchise goes through cycles. When it dies down and comes back around again it of necessity has to make a splash and look fully modern again. That will almost always require a bigger jump forward than just the ten or fifteen years it took to make a comeback. This is the whole reason why TNG settled on a 100 year difference with TOS. Because it needed that time difference to explain the visuals. That problem won't go away.

And even if you stubbornly stick to it, it won't really solve your problem anyway. I guarantee you when Picard comes out there will be people complaining that it looks way too modern/Apple inspired/whatever compared to what Nemesis had 'only 20 years before' or All Good Things 'only 5 years before'.
 
I guarantee you when Picard comes out there will be people complaining that it looks way too modern/Apple inspired/whatever compared to what Nemesis had 'only 20 years before' or All Good Things 'only 5 years before'.

And that’s fine (A. C. Clarke did it with the Odyssey books) because I’m mostly concerned with this underlying issue of riffing off a safety net, whereas moving forward implies leaving proven elements behind and risking one’s show on one’s own ability to create memorable characters and settings. As long as there is some kind of a precedent/mechanism that supports that, it’s OK, and fans of course should be clamoring to be astonished rather than settle for something like this Pike-show request (the obvious, doable spin-off).
 
You do realize that "things move at the speed of plot" and "the NX-01 moves slower than future ships" are two contradictory statements?



When was that ever stated? A phase pistol and a phaser are guns that shoot a beam of light that stuns or kills an opponent. They're for all intents and purposes the same thing.



You mean one type of science-fictionny thingy vs. another type of science-fictionny thingy that does the exact same job of preventing shots from hitting the ship's hull? Not seeing the difference.



You must have watched a different show than I did, because it was nothing of the sort. Google "submarine interior" and compare pics of that with pics of the NX-01 interior. They're not even remotely close.



They're both containers that store the dilithium crystals and the matter/antimatter intermix chamber. The only difference is the shape.



I'll take your word for that, since I don't recall that episode.



Any aliens that communicated directly with the NX-01 crew spoke English 90% of the time. The Xindi insects and aquatics did not communicate directly with humans AFAIK. And I think I can count on one hand the amount of 'translating' Hoshi ever did.



Not sure what that nonsequitor has to do with anything.
memory alpha is a great thing, you might wanna check it out
 
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