T' - Does the prefix have to be feminine?

[Boris Skrbic]

Why go against Occam’s Razor for every individual example? “What if Maltz is a Federation spy in disguise? Why couldn’t he be?” It’s analysis, not a conspiracy theory or fanfic. Just make a list of names associated with the simplest explanations for people’s background and rely on patterns across many datapoints to come up with the simplest theory that fits the information. If something turns up later on, the theory can be adjusted, but not in advance for no particular reason.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I always enjoyed John M. Ford's explanation for Klingon names from "The Final Reflection". They start off one way and then, as they rise up through the ranks and house status, the first letter changes as part of a larger honorific. The lead character started off as an orphan without a house, simply named "Vrenn", adopted by a Klingon noble and then ultimately became "Krenn Epetai-Rustazh" upon promotion to Captain. My memory is a bit faded on the details but that was the general gist of it. It's an elegant solution that solves a lot of naming convention problems. Just people sitting on different rungs of their societal and cultural ladder, nothing deeper than that.

 

[Tim Thomason]

I always enjoyed John M. Ford's explanation for Klingon names from "The Final Reflection". They start off one way and then, as they rise up through the ranks and house status, the first letter changes as part of a larger honorific. The lead character started off as an orphan without a house, simply named "Vrenn", adopted by a Klingon noble and then ultimately became "Krenn Epetai-Rustazh" upon promotion to Captain. My memory is a bit faded on the details but that was the general gist of it. It's an elegant solution that solves a lot of naming convention problems. Just people sitting on different rungs of their societal and cultural ladder, nothing deeper than that.

So, Vs get replaced with Ks? I wonder why Discovery didn't adapt this piece of Final Reflection lore and rename Voq when he gained status.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Probably because they would the have needed to pay John M. Ford’s estate royalties for using his concepts. I would have loved that, personally, as he painted a rich picture of a culture that had far greater depth than the big hair biker Samurai Vikings that TNG gave us.

The only time I think the series ever came close, IMO, were with Kang, Koloth and Kor’s performance in DS9’s “Blood Oath”. They were introspective, strategic and deadly without all the bluster, as they always should have been.

 

[Greg Cox]

Probably because they would the have needed to pay John M. Ford’s estate royalties for using his concepts.

That's not how it works. The novels are all work-for-hire. CBS owns everything in them, including any new characters or concepts. Book authors do not get additional payments if those concepts are reused. A Trek show or movie can use anything they want from the novels, free of charge.

It's different with screenwriters because screenwriters belong to a union. Book authors don't.

Not complaining. Just stating the facts.

(And that's not just a STAR TREK thing. That applies to all TV tie-in novels.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

A Trek show or movie can use anything they want from the novels, free of charge.

So does this not extend to works such as the Starfleet Technical Manual?

for example, the tugs shown towing the Enterprise in DSC's "Brother" were probably supposed to be Ptolemy-class, but they never showed them up close. Supposedly this was because of all the pussyfooting around Franz Joseph's estate.

So, Vs get replaced with Ks?

Sort of.

The general thrust of the gist is that, whatever one's birth name happens to be, joining the military carries a specific pattern. In TFR, all personnel in the Klingon Defense Force navy have names starting with K. Marines all have names starting with M. And civilian advisors/planners have names that begin with A.

 

[Greg Cox]

So does this not extend to works such as the Starfleet Technical Manual?

for example, the tugs shown towing the Enterprise in DSC's "Brother" were probably supposed to be Ptolemy-class, but they never showed them up close. Supposedly this was because of all the pussyfooting around Franz Joseph's estate.

Have no idea what the deal was with that particular project decades ago, although I'm noting both a "probably" and "supposedly" in the example you cited so that could be just be speculation or rumor. (Or Joseph had a REALLY good agent back in the day and somebody at Paramount dropped the ball.)

But the whole "they can't use X without paying Y" business is a movie/TV-episode thing. It has nothing to do with licensed tie-in novels.

Ford's estate has no say in the matter.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Thanks very much for the clarification. I stand corrected. I wonder, then, if maybe there are sticky bits with FASA, then, which licensed and heavily used Ford’s work for the Klingon sourcebooks. Although, I suspect that since their license has long since expired, the have no more claim to any of it than Ford’s estate.

 

[Greg Cox]

Thanks very much for the clarification. I stand corrected. I wonder, then, if maybe there are sticky bits with FASA, then, which licensed and heavily used Ford’s work for the Klingon sourcebooks. Although, I suspect that since their license has long since expired, the have no more claim to any of it than Ford’s estate.

No problem. It's a common misconception that tie-in books operate under the same rules as screenplays, which is why I like to clear it up when it arises.

Speaking of John M. Ford, this is where I shamelessly mention that Tor Books has recently concluded a deal with Ford's estate to reprint his original works, which they do control the rights to.

 

[Tallguy]

So does this not extend to works such as the Starfleet Technical Manual?

for example, the tugs shown towing the Enterprise in DSC's "Brother" were probably supposed to be Ptolemy-class, but they never showed them up close. Supposedly this was because of all the pussyfooting around Franz Joseph's estate.

I don't know. Did FJ get a shiny dime from Star Trek: The Motion Picture?

Speaking of John M. Ford, this is where I shamelessly mention that Tor Books has recently concluded a deal with Ford's estate to reprint his original works, which they do control the rights to.

Neat!

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The novelization IIRC also has a hero character (Chekov?) commenting how "Valeris... Almost sounds Klingon", helping set up the mood of suspicion and intolerance. I wonder if such a line actually was part of some earlier version of the script, the V-name pattern already having been established in the couple of preceding movies.

Captain Kirk says that to Valeris on pg. 51 of my paperback edition. It's an insertion in the "You piloted well out of Spacedock" scene between Valeris and Kirk.

AFAIK, the idea of "Valeris" being a Klingon name was purely a J.M. Dillard invention. When they decided that Kim Cattrall's part should be a brand new character instead the third iteration of Saavik, she suggested the name "Eris," the Greek goddess of strife, since her character caused conflict in the film. Either Nicholas Meyer or Denny Martin Flinn adjusted the name to "Valeris" so it would sound more Vulcan-like.

Personally, I don't care for the Dillard "she's a Vulcan with a Klingon name" expansion/explanation. It was unnecessary, overly convoluted, and, like most of Dillard's additions to the script, went against the spirit of the story. STVI is probably my favorite of the original movies, but the novelization was a supreme disappointment, IMO.

I always enjoyed John M. Ford's explanation for Klingon names from "The Final Reflection". They start off one way and then, as they rise up through the ranks and house status, the first letter changes as part of a larger honorific. The lead character started off as an orphan without a house, simply named "Vrenn", adopted by a Klingon noble and then ultimately became "Krenn Epetai-Rustazh" upon promotion to Captain. My memory is a bit faded on the details but that was the general gist of it. It's an elegant solution that solves a lot of naming convention problems. Just people sitting on different rungs of their societal and cultural ladder, nothing deeper than that.

Yes, I liked that explanation, too. Supremely clever.

 

[Cyrus]

What about Andorian names, males start with "Sh" and females with "T"?

 

[Timo]

AFAIK, the idea of "Valeris" being a Klingon name was purely a J.M. Dillard invention. When they decided that Kim Cattrall's part should be a brand new character instead the third iteration of Saavik, she suggested the name "Eris," the Greek goddess of strife, since her character caused conflict in the film. Either Nicholas Meyer or Denny Martin Flinn adjusted the name to "Valeris" so it would sound more Vulcan-like.

Curse Meyer or Flinn, then, for not choosing Tal'Eris instead...

Yes, I liked that explanation, too. Supremely clever.

It's apparently very Klingon to be a truly self-made man/woman. Not only are the names whatever their bearers want them to be, the bodies are also malleable, mere tools for a task, so that the only constant in Klingondom is change!

The Andorians are rather the exact opposite. Rigid naming traditions, and they even all look the same! (In DSC at least.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Phoenix219]

Her scenes were poorly lit, making it difficult to tell. Production stills have better lighting - she's definitely Klingon, albeit with a subtler, almost Chang-like forehead design.
View attachment 12610

They were just starting to go through treatment to cure the Augment Virus and restore their ridges. They were baby ridges, just starting to grow back. ;D

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Curse Meyer or Flinn, then, for not choosing Tal'Eris instead...

Nah. I liked their story. Dillard, not so much.

 

[F. King Daniel]

So, Vs get replaced with Ks? I wonder why Discovery didn't adapt this piece of Final Reflection lore and rename Voq when he gained status.

And it would have been the best Klingon name ever.

 

[FormerLurker]

They were just starting to go through treatment to cure the Augment Virus and restore their ridges. They were baby ridges, just starting to grow back. ;D

That actually works. It can also be used to explain Vixis' small ridges in STV. Where she's from, the treatments started later, and she's just starting to grow her's back.

Another explanation could be that the bulk of the Empire received treatment at once, and the smaller ridges are of those Klingons that are sanding theirs down to get used to having them before letting them grow in all the way.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

AFAIK, the idea of "Valeris" being a Klingon name was purely a J.M. Dillard invention.

I thought Cattrall herself came up with the name?

 

[Tim Thomason]

I thought Cattrall herself came up with the name?

She did, partially. Dillard invented the reasoning for the name Valeris, as she didn't believe it was Vulcan enough.

 

[Kor]

Well, Valeris is only one letter away from Valkris.

Kor