Survivor: Island of the Idols

[wissaboo]

That episode was bonkers. It made no sense at all. How did it come as a surprise to Dan when the producers said they pulled him out and specifically spoke to him about it? How did Jamal know to single him out if no one knew about it? How did Janet become a target? Jeff handled it horribly at tribal. The whole thing was crazy.

 

[DigificWriter]

That episode was bonkers. It made no sense at all. How did it come as a surprise to Dan when the producers said they pulled him out and specifically spoke to him about it? How did Jamal know to single him out if no one knew about it? How did Janet become a target? Jeff handled it horribly at tribal. The whole thing was crazy.

1) Dan didn't see what he was doing as a 'big deal' despite being formally warned by the producers and just wanted the entire situation to be forgotten about and swept under the rug

2) Producers pulled all of the castaways aside individually as well as as a group and had a discussion with them about personal boundaries and appropriate behavior; also, Jamal was aligned with and friends with Kellee and would therefore have been aware of her feelings on the matter independent of the producers having intervened and spoken about the issue with him and the other castaways

3) Janet became a target because she got in Elizabeth and Missy's faces - and rightfully so - about the two of them taking actual issues regarding sexual harassment, boundaries, and inappropriate behavior and making it part of a game

4) Jeff was stuck between a rock and a hard place because the situation had 'morphed' from a legitimate and very serious issue about sexual harassment and inappropriate behavior into 'gameplay strategy' when it ought to have continued to have been handled and addressed as being separate from the gameplay itself (which is why the rule about jurors not getting to comment at Tribal Councils ought to have been temporarily rescinded)

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The way Dan reacted makes me think of Caputo in Orange Is The New Black.

How the way of phrasing “IF you perceived some offense from my actions”.

He doesn’t acknowledge he did anything inappropriate, he is apologizing for their perception it was inappropriate while implying that perception has no legitimacy.

“Because I deem these actions normal affection they objectively are and there can be no discussion. But sorry YOU feel that way.”

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Dan gave a meaningless non-apology-apology because despite all that has happened, he still doesn't believe he did anything wrong. That's why he was pissed at Probst and the others for "Not letting it go," because he thought it was a non-issue. And sadly, the way things worked out with the mishandling of the situation by the Survivor producers and Kellee and Jamal voted out and Janet being alienated, it all reinforces his view of things.

Kellee had already told him his inappropriate touching made her uncomfortable way back on day two, so he knew it wasn't okay with her. But then he started doing it again right after the merge and played all innocent and surprised that anyone had a problem with it at tribal despite Kellee and the Survivor producers telling him to stop individually and as part of the overall discussion with the group.

And to demonstrate that he hasn't learned a thing, as a way of showing that he wasn't inappropriately touching anyone, at Tribal he inappropriately roughly grabbed and shook Noura's arm without any warning or asking her permission.

The Survivor producers rightly removed and banned Brandon Hantz years ago when it looked like he might get violent, and they should have done the same here as soon as Kellee made the confessional talking about the incident. They shouldn't even have forced her to make the decision, because she might have felt pressure between not wanting her game to blow up and not wanting to deal with a backlash. They had the video evidence, they had Kellee, Lauren, and I think Molly(?) talking about Dan's touching on day two as a group.

Missy, Elizabeth, and Lauren were terrible for the way they treated Kellee and Janet and for using sexual harassment as an advantage in the game. So not only did they dismiss a fellow woman's call for help and solidarity, not only did they lie and exaggerate to an older woman who took them at their word and acted against her friend (Dan) and self-interest in the game to protect them and then got criticized for it by that shitbird Aaron, they also perpetuated the myth of women rampantly making up false or exaggerated sexual harassment claims, and in the process let Dan feel like he was somehow the victim in all of this. Janet was absolutely right that there are certain lines you shouldn't cross to play the game, and that was one of them.

Jeff handled the questioning at tribal well and had a nice Adlai Stevenson moment with Dan when he said "they'd stay there until Day 39 until he got a straight answer out of him" and apparently he was the one who insisted on contacting CBS once he was informed of Kellee's confessional, and he got them to send in the producers to talk to everyone and to personally give Dan a warning. The producers were just going to let it go once Kellee said she didn't want them to intervene.

I was disappointed however that they didn't break the jury gag rule under the special circumstances t allow Kellee to address the issue and Dan and Missy, Elizabeth, and Lauren and Aaron. I don't know if that's Probst or if the other producers overruled him. I think Probst could have probably just done it if he wanted to. It was tragic having to see her sit there silently while all of this was hapening and Dan and the others ket floating their lies.

I've previously been annoyed by Jamal because he's very overbearing and rude, but he stepped up and said the right things here when Aaron was being a dismissive dick to Janet and by extension Kellee, so that was a good recovery before he got voted out. He got hosed on his Island of the Idols trip.

I'm all in on hoping that Janet will win, because she showed an incredible amount of integrity, compassion, and courage doing the right thing even if it meant hurting her own game play and having to vote out someone she considered a friend and who had not harassed her all because she took the word of the women who spoke to her. Unfortunately given Dan's vindictiveness toward Kellee as she got voted out, and the way Dan and Aaron turned on her, and the way Lauren, Missy, and Elizabeth manipulated her, I don't think they'll keep her around. She's got the one idol, so hopefully she plays it if they go for her.

I really liked Missy and Elizabeth before, so this was a disappointing episode.

I so do not care about Boston Rob and Sandra's commentary or the Island of the Idols crap. It just takes time away from the actual gameplay. I'm sure they'll have some role to play in the finale, but their contribution has been pretty lame so far, and nothing Probst couldn't have done himself. I appreciate that they keep trying new things, but this was a bad idea. When I first heard the concept I thought Boston Rob and Sandra were going to be non-playing coaches living with and leading the two tribes and giving them the benefit of their advice every day, so it would be like two tribes at peak skill going up against each other. Not this secret island getaway stuff that no one can talk about.

 

[Timewalker]

I think Dan may have genuinely not realized he was crossing people’s personal boundaries.

But then when he was told he was, instead of saying “Sorry I didn’t realize I was making you uncomfortable, I’ll be more careful”. He said “How dare you suggest I could have been doing anything wrong?!”

He made it all about himself and his own reputation under attack instead of listening and learning anything.

I had to deal with a POS like that at a science fiction convention back in the '90s. He kept coming up behind women and rubbing their backs and necks without asking if it was okay, and claimed that "nobody else minds" when I told him to stop.

By the time he started for the third time, we were in the middle of a crowded hallway on the mezzanine. I'd finally had enough of quietly telling him I didn't like to be touched, and I just yelled at him, "I've told you TWICE ALREADY that I don't want you to touch me. STOP."

At that point he must have remembered that Con Security wasn't far away and there's a zero-tolerance policy for harassment if someone makes a formal complaint or if they see something they think crosses a line. I could have had that jerk thrown out of the convention, and thinking back to that from 25 years later, I wish I had.

 

[Garak]

Did I not call it earlier in this thread that Dan looks like Harvey Weinstein and is super creepy?

*checks thread

Why yes, yes I did

Sad to see Kellee get voted off, that girl was a damn player. Would love to see her in a future season

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I liked this episode. Two surprises.

I think I can finally name all the players left!

My pick for winner right now is Elaine.

My list of likelihood to win:
Elaine
Dean (With Aaron gone has the Ben path open)
Lauren (Liked but not currently seen as threat)
Elizabeth (Same)
Janet (Now off the bottom, liked and not a physical threat)
Tom (Just too obviously a threat)
Norou (Started off weak but very improved)
Dan (Only downside is handsy issue, but big issue final vote wise)
Kharishma (I like her as a person and how hard she fights but with the no hard work thing just can’t earn votes)

 

[wissaboo]

I've always loved Elaine. Loved who they voted out last night. The reaction from Elizabeth was priceless.

I thought they might make some statement about the controversy from last week.

 

[DigificWriter]

Elaine and Janet are still my picks to win the game.

Everybody else is either just 'there', has done things that have removed them from my favorites list (Elizabeth), or is someone that I really don't like (Dan).

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Wow, even when you put aside the bad touching Dan is an arrogant jerk who looks down on people.

I’m glad Kharishma was voted out because I didn’t want to see the goat dragged through. But I don’t understand the strategy of that vote.

So the list of people whose winning would not make me mad is now: Lauren, Tommy, Elaine, Janet. But there’s no especially good player this year, just a bunch of pretty decent ones.

 

[Timewalker]

Wow, even when you put aside the bad touching Dan is an arrogant jerk who looks down on people.

I’m glad Kharishma was voted out because I didn’t want to see the goat dragged through. But I don’t understand the strategy of that vote.

So the list of people whose winning would not make me mad is now: Lauren, Tommy, Elaine, Janet. But there’s no especially good player this year, just a bunch of pretty decent ones.

The strategy could be as simple as "she annoys the hell out of me and I don't think she deserves to be in the final."

If only they felt that way about Dan.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That’s true, the anti goat vote is reasonable strategy. If Kharishma is in, one less final three spot with someone else.

Unfortunately I think Elaine is next unless she wins immunity or finds an idol.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Too bad Elaine is out, but I really wonder what Dan did that crossed the line. Must have been toward a producer or camerawoman?

This cast seems to cop out of courageous vote for the easy vote. If Dan hadn’t been taken out this would have really hurt Lauren not to take out Norou.

 

[DigificWriter]

With numbers dwindling, at least one of my favorites was going to end up on the outside looking in, but Elaine played a tremendous game and deserves to be invited back.

Here's hoping Janet can win, because otherwise this season might end up being a dud in the end.

 

[Timewalker]

It's obvious that whoever Dan assaulted (call it for what it is, after the umpteenth time of being told not to do it) was one of the production or other staff. Some guys just can't keep their hands to themselves.

It's a shame that Elaine was voted out. She should have saved her idol.

Janet is the only one left I like. So of course she won't win.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

What do you guys have against Lauren or Tommy winning, I'm curious?

 

[DigificWriter]

Although Jeff declined to address the Dan situation in detail during his weekly interview with Entertainment Weekly's Dalton Ross due to confidentiality and privacy concerns, People Magazine reported online that the incident that got him removed from the game happened following the immunity challenge and involved a female crewmember, and that it took until the following day for him to officially be ejected because Jeff and the other producers had to consult with lawyers and come to a decision about how to respond.I

there are some people who are using social media to either directly or indirectly attack the producers for only removing him from the game after his behavior affected a member of the crew, but in the complicated society we live in, there's a fine line between taking immediate action and rushing to take action.

Kellee has expressed some disappointment that it took as long as it did for something to be done, but is also hopeful that lessons will be learned going forward and things will change, and has actually handled the entire situation professionally and with class and dignity.

Coming after the Survivor producers for not acting sooner is, IMO, vilifying the wrong people, as is attacking them for pre-taping the reunion show and not disclosing more details about the situation.

What do you guys have against Lauren or Tommy winning, I'm curious?

I just haven't connected with them as players the way I have/did with Janet and Elaine.

 

[Spot's Meow]

Good riddance to Dan.

I am sad to see Elaine go. I really wanted her to win. Now I'm hoping that Janet can win, though I don't see it happening.

I wouldn't be very excited for a Lauren win because of her role in the Dan stuff. She wasn't on the level of Missy or Elizabeth, but she too was a Dan defender, and basically said she knew that Dan was making some women uncomfortable, but didn't care about it because he wasn't make HER uncomfortable. I was a bit soured on her after that. Actually, I hadn't much liked her before that either, as she had made some very rude comments about Karishma and Elaine, saying that she wasn't worried about them because they were basically too stupid to make any real game moves. It struck me as a petty, popular-clique type of attitude.

Dean is annoying because he comes off as a little cocky to me, even though he's not done much of note. And he keeps messing up some good moves. So I'm not too keen on him winning either.

Noura is okay, a little too crazy for my tastes, but I wouldn't be upset if she won.

Tommy...I don't hate him, but I don't really like him either. He's very mediocre to me. He's narrowly escaped being voted out more than once, but not because he was such a great player, but rather others failed to follow through with the plan for their own reasons. So while he seems like a nice guy, he hasn't done anything that particularly stands out to me.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

To me Lauren and Tommy have played the strongest games. They are the ones who have been in the powerful group the whole game.

I don’t think it’s fair to hold against Lauren for having her own view of Dan. You can’t tell women how to feel. And she didn’t necessarily see everything, in the moment she may just have just seen somebody’s real life reputation being potentially hurt in national television.

They haven’t made the big dramatic moves you like to see, but they have had solid social games throughout.

Dean has barely skirted by on never quite being the big threat. I think his idol nullifier may spell doom for Janet, unfortunately.

 

[Garak]

Wow, Dan apparently just can't help himself. I'm shocked but not shocked

Makes you think that he's gotten away with his creepy bullshit quite a bit in his life back home

As for the rest.....shame about Elaine as you can't help but root for her. The rest are kind of an unimpressive bunch. I think you have to bring Noura to the end because she won't get a single vote. I don't know who the people to bring her are - maybe Lauren and Tommy are the most deserving? Hard to say they're all pretty meh

Can't wait until next season when we don't have this Rob/Sandra gimmick