Discovery's Klingon War in the Kelvinverse

[fireproof78]

Same goes for Prime USS Kelvin/Robau actually.

 

[Amasov]

There doesn't seem to be any sort of pattern by which the alternate universes are similar and where they are different from each other. The writers just seem to pick and choose. It seems like certain events have happened in all of them, but, not exactly the same way. Certain characters still meet and establish relationships, but, not in the same way.

For example, did the Michael Burnham of the Kelvin timeline lose her parents and become adopted by Sarek and Amanda early on? It'd be interesting to see if this new movie could create, or at least reference, the Kelvin "version" of the Discovery events now they are all under the same corporate roof.

 

[Timo]

The point in going to the Mirror universe is that the person doing the going finds a he- or she-shaped hole on the other side. This need not be just a dramatic conceit - it could be how the Mirror thing works in-universe, too.

To get that hole, something has to give. Sometimes there's a direct switcharoo, sometimes a convenient death or disappearance. But the general point is that the universe bends around this single person to achieve the required holiness. So we often find bent universes. And if we visited the Kelvin side with Mike Burnham doing the traveling by hitting a little-known, unlabeled button in her Angel Suit, we might get a Kelvin timeline very different from the one we saw when there was nobody jumping and bending. And instead of a blow-by-blow "explanation" for the differences, we would just get cute references to the devious Terran agent Grayson skillfully assassinating the Vulcan subversive element Sarek in 2232 or whatnot.

Just slipping the hero into a preexisting alternate take would IMHO be much less interesting. But perhaps not?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shaka Zulu]

This. I could see some skirmishes with the Klingons happening prior to TOS, but not a full-scale war like in Discovery. Which is a problem I’ve had with the show. Everything has to be over-the-top, there is little in the way of subtlety.

Looks like the producers did their own version of the war that was mentioned in the Axanar fan film prequel, except they did it better than Alex Peters ever did or was 'going' to do.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Looks like the producers did their own version of the war that was mentioned in the Axanar fan film prequel, except they did it better than Alex Peters ever did or was 'going' to do.

For what it's worth, Prelude to Axanar was based on an old FASA Trek 1986 role playing game sourcebook called The Four Years War.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

For what it's worth, Prelude to Axanar was based on an old FASA Trek 1986 role playing game sourcebook called The Four Years War.

Yeah, I know that, which is why I can't understand why many so-called 'fans' have it in for Discovery's Klingon war story arc, but not Prelude to Axanar, or a possible Romulan War one on Enterprise.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, I know that, which is why I can't understand why many so-called 'fans' have it in for Discovery's Klingon war story arc, but not Prelude to Axanar, or a possible Romulan War on Enterprise.

Because when fans do it its OK. When its an official production it is immediately not OK, and potentially "too dark" or "a rejection of "Roddenberry's Vision (TM)."

I can even respect when people state that it is because execution and presentation, but, at the same time, I can't help but be extremely confused when I look at fan art and fan productions that center around darker themes and they are embraced by fans. It's super confusing.

 

[Henoch]

This. I could see some skirmishes with the Klingons happening prior to TOS, but not a full-scale war like in Discovery. Which is a problem I’ve had with the show. Everything has to be over-the-top, there is little in the way of subtlety.

Piecing it together, Axanar is too far back for Kirk to be involved, so, Kor's admiration can't be then. In Day of the Dove, Kang said, "For three years, the Federation and the Klingon Empire have been at peace. A treaty we have honoured to the letter." Based on airdate, three years puts this time frame in 2265, a year and a half before Errand of Mercy. Errand of Mercy is not the conflict in question. But if you use stardate <ducks a little> and assume the DOTD stardate was around 5550, three years before would be 2550; this puts the Klingon treaty between The Squire of Gothos (stardate 2124) and What Are Little Girls Made Of? (stardate 2712) which gives us about 500 stardates or 6 months to have a brief conflict and treaty. Kirk would have been involved in any Klingon conflict during this time frame as Captain of the Enterprise, and hence, a possible reason for Kor's admiration by Errand of Mercy (stardate 3200), about 6 months after the conflict. Stardates work here <hits the dirt>.

 

[Timo]

Piecing it together, Axanar is too far back for Kirk to be involved, so, Kor's admiration can't be then.

...Unless Axanar or Axanar happens later than FASA/Peters intended, and is in fact one of the many rounds in the fighting triggered by Burnham's War and extending from 2256 to, ah, 2259, to pull a length for the conflict completely out of thin air. There is no timing for Axanar in canon - we don't even know if Cadet Kirk visited the place before or after the military conflict associated with that location!

In Day of the Dove, Kang said, "For three years, the Federation and the Klingon Empire have been at peace. A treaty we have honoured to the letter." Based on airdate, three years puts this time frame in 2265, a year and a half before Errand of Mercy. Errand of Mercy is not the conflict in question. But if you use stardate <ducks a little> and assume the DOTD stardate was around 5550, three years before would be 2550; this puts the Klingon treaty between The Squire of Gothos (stardate 2124) and What Are Little Girls Made Of? (stardate 2712) which gives us about 500 stardates or 6 months to have a brief conflict and treaty.

Fudge that by allowing Kang to round up or down or use Klingon years or whatever, and "Errand of Mercy" is easily the moment when Klingons at long last stop doing war with the UFP.

Kirk would have been involved in any Klingon conflict during this time frame as Captain of the Enterprise, and hence, a possible reason for Kor's admiration by Errand of Mercy (stardate 3200), about 6 months after the conflict. Stardates work here <hits the dirt>.

Also, Garth's actions at Antos were not given a definite timestamp, but he's a "new" inmate at Elba, so he might still have been active fairly recently and thus witness to Kirk's TOS achievements as a "fine military commander".

Letting Kirk do fine military commanding in Burnham's War works fine, too, though. Or/and in a conflict much like Peters' or FASA's, only a decade later than the old writ would have it (and the FASA dates are subject to interpretation in the best of cases).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ralphis]

I’d love to see, in a comic mini-series or in other fashion, the Kelvin-timeline USS Shenzhou/Georgiou having a different fate.

I've had similar thoughts. Prime Timeline Captain Georgiou seemed like a great character and I wanted to see more of her. I imagine the Kelvin Timeline Georgiou would be pretty close to her Prime counterpart, so it would be fun seeing her adventures. The IDW Ongoing/Boldly Go series was kind of a mixed bag, but this is something they probably would have tackled in some way if DSC was around when they were still making the comic. Now that Kelvin timeline Star Trek 4 might actually happen, maybe IDW will bring that series back in some way, opening the door for Kelvin Georgiou?