Spoilers Crisis on Infinite Earths Discussion (CW Event Spoiler Thread)

Going ahead and starting an actual spoiler thread as the other one has been earmarked as spoiler-free.

That said:

- Hey, Okudagram mashup easter egg?!

- I understand that there is a budgetary limitation on how many people can actually be involved in the crossover. That said, IMO there should have been no reason Harbinger couldn't just keep bringing various heroes to Earth 38 for the battle there. There are numerous people familiar with interdimensional threats, especially on The Flash, who could have helped on the techie side too.

- Supergirl's heat vision lasted longer than Superman's. I guess it's because he's been away on Argo for a while and hasn't fully recharged under this sun, even if not mentioned in dialogue.

- There were enough spacecraft on or near Earth-38 to manually evacuate nearly half of the planet's population?! Talk about glossing over the logistics of the largest human migration ever accomplished in the space of a few hours!

- Speaking of which, did they keep the bridge set of the Legion's ship for that one tight shot of J'Onn piloting it? Methinks some greenscreen was at play here.

- And incidentally, when the Legion left present-day Earth-38, they WERE aboard their ship. They must have sent it back afterwards, where Brainy kept it in HIS garage disguised as, I dunno, a WWII destroyer. Nevermind all the times it could have been useful since then. :P

- Last year, the skies turned red as a part of Elseworlds / magic book / whatever, but here it's literally because of the approaching antimatter wave. What gives?

Mark

 

Reposting/expanding my thoughts from the other thread:

Okay, so that went largely as expected from the trailers and descriptions, but with some surprises. Mainly, I didn't expect Oliver to die so soon, though I doubt that will stick, since they wouldn't ditch their star player so early in the huge crossover. Also, we barely got any Barry/Oliver interplay, and I think they said in interviews that there will be more of that.

So Earth-89 and Earth-66 are obvious, and Earth-16 is no doubt called that because it's an alternate future introduced in a 2016 Legends episode. But why is the Titans world called Earth-9?

So far, this has one of the same problems the original CoIE had, which is that it's just too cluttered. You'd think Nash showing up and telling the sad tale of how he released the Anti-Monitor and is now a Pariah would warrant a big scene, but it's just a random throwaway moment in the middle of Oliver's death scene. Why is he even there? It would've been better to leave his intro for the opening of Part 2. And the bit about Ollie finally learning about the discrepancy in the Monitor's predictions -- telling Oliver he had to die to save Barry and Kara while telling Barry he still had to die -- was far too cursory for something that's been building up for a year. Although on the other hand, it's entirely in character for Oliver to process it so quickly and react so decisively.

It's also quite hard to believe that Oliver staying for a few extra minutes and shooting a few arrows and fighting an army of demons with his bare fists would save a billion people. And why did the Monitor just whisk the others away without asking but not do the same with Ollie?

The antimatter wave makes no sense. Somehow Argo City is the only inhabited world(let) in its path even though it's spreading through the whole universe and destroying everything? And it bounced off the "edge" of the universe, which is infinite in size and has no edge? And even though it's fast enough to reach the edge of the whole universe and back in 5 hours, it's slow enough that you can see it coming and have time to prepare?

Anyway, nice to get (implicit) confirmation that Burt Ward was playing Dick Grayson of "Earth-66" after all. "Holy crimson skies of death!" Do you suppose the dog was Ace the Bat-Hound?

The cameos were about as I expected, just brief glimpses disconnected from the rest. They say there are more unannounced cameos to come, and I'm sure it'll be more of the same. The lack of interaction means they can easily slip in as many as they want. Heck, I'm not even sure the bit from Titans was original footage -- it could've just been clips modified with a red sky.

(By the way, I think it'd be hilarious if every other CW show this week had a red sky randomly appear at some point.)

I hate scenes where the heroes are pitted against a horde of faceless soldiers that die with one blow. It's just filler, basically, and there's no credibility to the threat if they go poof with a single hit. It's got about as much resonance as a fight with the footsoldiers in a Power Rangers episode. I also don't like it when heroes who usually have a code against killing, like the Supers and the Flash, just casually put it aside when fighting a horde of monsters.

The inclusion of Titans/"Earth-9" reinforces my expectation that the destroyed worlds will be restored at the end. There's no way they'll leave things as they are here, since that would mean throwing out all those expensive Supergirl standing sets, not to mention dropping the whole Leviathan plot, the Martian storyline, the Legion, etc.

Of course, this is all just fiction, so the makers of Titans wouldn't be prevented from making their show just because a different work of fiction claimed their universe was destroyed. But it would be pretty hubristic for this show to claim a different show's world had been permanently erased while it's still ongoing.

Last year, it was said to be the result of Flash-90 trying to break through the dimensional divide. It was also localized to whichever city he was trying to reach. The visual effect this year doesn't look exactly the same, I think, so maybe we can chalk it up to coincidence.

 

Just watched the part one. I'm starting to wonder if it would turn out to be something like Vorlons vs shadows, with the "others" steeping in in the last part.

Who is the Anti-Monitor? Have we seen him already. Or was it him the whole time...

 

Well, I watched the Kevin Smith aftershow, which was largely silly and annoying as aftershows tend to be, though it had a few interesting moments with the cast and crew interviews.

Notably, Katherine McNamara spoiled something that nobody seemed to react to as a spoiler:

Spoiler

She said there was still an upcoming scene of Mia being trained by Oliver. So unless it's a flashback or a doppelganger, Ollie might not be out of the game just yet.

 

We have not. The Anti-Monitor is the big bad in the comics version of the story.

 

I was riveted by the entire thing. When they hype this as being epic, they don't hold back and I really enjoyed episode 1. I was shocked by the ending, even though it would be a real mistake, or just really sad, if they did actually keep Oliver dead before Arrow actually ends.

As for the aftershow, it was decent, but I'm just not a fan of these after shows in general. There were some good nuggets in there (And I really liked the McNamara segment) but for the most part it was what you expect from an after show.

 

I didn't ask you. It was mostly rhetorical, and was to suggest the writers may have made it turn out he was seen earlier...

 

I also think that we'll be restoring a lot of the status quo to the multiverse shortly after this Crisis is over, with IMO a few notable exceptions. I think that the overall lesson of squishing all known realities into one Earth, while a viable solution in the short run, ends up stretching plausibility in the long term. It's sorta what we fans were harping on at several points in the MCU, where we have world-threatening problems on Earth and the Avengers are nowhere to be seen.

After all, we get subsequent Crises in the comics that not only re-establish the multiverse but expand on it, and IMO they've done right by them by and large. The viewers have been able to accept the concept of multiple versions of reality for some time now, and as such leaving us with a single Earth and continuity for the foreseeable future would be counterproductive. So while this Crisis is certainly a focal point, it will serve more as a soft retconn for a lot of smaller things while letting separate Earths continue.

So, while I've got a feeling that Earth-38 will be merged with Earth-1 after this is all over, a lot of the others will be restored with at best minor changes, like what we went through in Flashpoint. Heck, the producers are on record as saying that as part of Crisis, each of the individual shows were told that they could use this as an excuse to fix continuity issues, replace or introduce characters, and so on.

Mark

 

Despite your rude response, you didn't phrase the question in a rhetorical manner. Not everyone knows COIE well, and it was a reasonable question for those that don't.

It's logical. For the most part, they are playing in other people's sandboxes. When that happens, destroying them is not the right thing to do. They shouldn't kill Burt Ward or Michael Keaton, but the current shows are absolutely fair game.

They can use this to fix a lot of issues if they would like.

What I want to see most is Diggle emerging as John Stewart, ring and all, and later appearing on the HBO Max series.

 

Oh, absolutely. I think they've been quietly telegraphing Diggle's link and transformation into Green Lantern for some time now, long prior to Elseworlds, with the most recent indication being the unexplained swap to a green motif for his Spartan suit this year. They may not have been actively planning on moving John to his own show, I'm positive they've been keeping it in reserve for years now and they may finally pull the trigger as part of sending him off. While a GL series could be really expensive given the expectation of constant new CG models representing whatever the ring conjures up, it may finally be feasible on a platform like HBO Max.

Mark

PS - Funny thing, I've been re-watching The West Wing of late (much more positive than real life American politics, don'cha know) and BOTH David Ramsey and Cress Williams appear in one episode of the show's seventh season!

 

We might have seen a hologram of him in 'The Flash' earlier this season. But the characters just assumed it was the Monitor, since they didn't know the Anti-Monitor was a thing.

 

They already announced earlier this year that they are doing a Green Lantern series on HBO Max.

 

<Goes and consults "TEH INTERNETS">

Oh snap, you're right - AND it's being conceived as part of the Arrowverse! All we're missing is a carefully-hidden reveal by the end of Crisis (or at the latest, the final episode of Arrow next year), and Ramsey can finally let us know he'll be expecting more DC cheques.

Mark

 

Taken from the other thread to keep that one more spoiler free.

I get that, which explains his desire to go after his son on Earth 16. But his "why can't I have my own life" speech is not Superman.

That's your choice. But I have read the comics, and being vulnerable and being a wimp are two different things. The Dean Cain version was vulnerable, but not a wimp. The cartoon version also was vulnerable, and not a wimp. There's a difference. And they can do better, which is all I want.

 

Not sure where you got this from because AFAIK we have no details about the GL show beyond it being in development.

 

Well, on the other hand, does it really need an explanation why the Green Arrow's sidekick would adopt a green color scheme? I mean, yeah, it could be foreshadowing for GL, but there is a pretty obvious in-universe explanation even if it isn't.

As I've mentioned before, they have a lot of digital models built up already from previous Arrowverse shows, and it's simply a matter of reskinning them green and translucent. They've got all sorts of digital animals from Vixen's ashe forms, Grodd, a T. Rex, Rory's pet rat, etc. They've got assorted digital vehicles -- various cars, helicopters, jetliners, fighters, missiles, etc. Killer Frost's ice ramps, barriers, and other constructs could be reskinned as GL ring constructs. And so forth.

 

This thread is COIE-specific, but the chapters are still a part of the individual series' regular run, so reviews can appear in both threads. So...

Supergirl
Season 5 / Episode 9 - "Crisis on Infinite Earths - Part One"

SG/Kara: SG - A bit of improvement in Benoist's performance; it seems her SG is a better character when she's shaken on this level, as opposed to the run-of-the-mill domestic stuff.

Oliver: Hawkey--I mean Oliver's scenes with his daughter needed more attention. Hopefully, it will play a part in the final chapter, with his being brought back to life, if only for a moment.

SM/Lois: The Argo sequence was entirely anti-climatic, since you know...coming TV series, which should be worth checking out as Hoechlin and Tulloch have some chemistry, although Tulloch is really trying a bit too hard to channel the late Margot Kidder,

Monitor: LaMonica Garrett is sort of low key in his delivery considering the gravity of what's supposed to be happening to everything. One would hope the situation brings out some heart as this goes along.

Harbinger: Audrey Marie Anderson played this well enough. Nowhere near as otherworldly & enigmatic as the classic comic version, but she was cold/business-like enough.

Lena: Despite Alex's cold, hard truth, the showrunners had to shoehorn the embodiment of corruption into this. That said...

"I've learned my lesson from all of you." / "We are not friends...". Good. At least she's written as unforgiving as she should be, but I suspect all realistic development (including her corrupt nature) will be tossed out of the window sooner or later. Probably in the event she runs into her brother again, so he can show her how she's not like her family (despite her saying that for every season she's been on the show).

Nia / Brainy: ...and if Brainy knows anything about the course of what--in his experience--is the past, he has said nothing for what reason? Nia should hold that over his head when the dust settles. Speaking of Nia, she's really been underused this season. Her involvement in the Leviathan matter was little more than incidental, which makes one believe the showrunners have run out of plots for her. She's a costumed heroine in that city, and should have more involvement, or larger sub-plots of her own.

NOTES: You would think for this crossover, they would shell out more for the FX. Poor FX really undermined this episode.

Burt Ward's cameo. If they were going to do so much fan-service casting, one would have thought he would have more to do--at least something where he was more concerned, considering his background of dealing with the fantastic.

Kelly: "James left this for me." ...but not a single scene with James when a world-threatening conflict would at the very least inspire a call to his sister...Kara...anyone. Nope. Unless he has a cameo in the episodes to come, he's forever marginalized.

The editing and direction were choppy as Hell. Off reaction shots, a slapped together feel and a lack of careful direction, which was very noticeable in the Gotham scene, which did not play like anything directed by Dale, Peters, Allowitz, et al.

Overall, this first chapter felt rushed, and despite every pronouncement of imminent danger, it was lacking the absolute dread the classic comic had from the start, letting you know this was no ordinary superhero story by a longshot. Further, most of the main players were not given much to do, other than the writers trying their hand at a few MCU-esque quips here and there. Hopefully, the Batwoman chapter will be as serious as the rest of that series.

GRADE: C.

 

I loved everything about it except for the Lena/Alex scenes. Katie really does deserve better.

If there's one thing I think they could do better, it's convey the existential magnitude of what's happening with greater urgency, beyond a few cheap cliches and platitudes. It will be interesting to see how they handle the fallout of three billion displaced refugees.

 

On reviewing the sources I'd read, I guess it's still hearsay at this point after all, with multiple but unofficial sources saying that it will be part of the Arrowverse. So at best (please please) it will be an integral part of the Acore shows, and at worst it will be an arm's length production like Titans.

One video that summarizes things:

Mark