I still consider this the worst Star Trek movie of all time because of Kirk's death, and how the TNG writers took a dump on the original series in what could have been an epic crossover. They original characters served no real purpose to the story. Any generic person could have played Kirk's role in this movie. Poorly written, poorly executed.
Generations@25
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I always thought something was 'off' about that scene until I joined these boards and discovered the truth. Now you can't unsee it. Would it have killed them to re-write the lines - even just slightly?
I like the golden lighting. Very cinematic as others have said.
I don't like the reuse of the exact same bird of prey explosion shot that was used in the movie that came immediately before, including a chunk of the ship bouncing off the floor.
Was that the reason they put Lursa and B'etor in a BoP? So they could go cheap on the ship's destruction?
Kor
I don't like the reuse of the exact same bird of prey explosion shot that was used in the movie that came immediately before, including a chunk of the ship bouncing off the floor.
Was that the reason they put Lursa and B'etor in a BoP? So they could go cheap on the ship's destruction?Kor
I like the golden lighting. Very cinematic as others have said.
I don't like the reuse of the exact same bird of prey explosion shot that was used in the movie that came immediately before, including a chunk of the ship bouncing off the floor.
Kor
I would say so. They also re-used a shot of the Excelsior at warp for the Enterprise B.
By the way what do you mean by 'chunk of the ship bouncing off the floor'
Pro:
Best music of all Tng films.. Honestly, behind James Horner's scores for all time. Great music! Jerry's other scores for the other 3 were just Bland... and nice to see one of the Series muscisans get up on Cinima!
Best music of all Tng films.. Honestly, behind James Horner's scores for all time. Great music! Jerry's other scores for the other 3 were just Bland... and nice to see one of the Series muscisans get up on Cinima!
Do you know... I appreciate the love for the music, but I can't agree. Although it's a *little* more up-market, it feels like Denis McCarthy is continuing to operate under the rules of the TV shows. The score is low-key and uninspiring. And given that the TMP theme had become synonymous/associated with Next Gen over seven years as the theme music of the show, it's particularly noticable by its complete absence.
Generations is a beautiful looking film regarding cinematography. The Enterprise-D never looked better on screen including both the starship exterior and the interior sets[revisions].
However, I absolutely agree with this:
However, I absolutely agree with this:
A piece of the model is moving away from the ship and then obviously hits the studio floor and changes trajectory/angle. In space that doesn't make any sense. Though when GEN uses the exact same shot, they might have cut away before it's noticeable.
Kor
GEN has the misfortune of being rushed, given the same people who made it were running around with shoring up TNG as well as juggling DS9, and wasn't VOY starting to be cooked up behind the scenes as well? That's a big plate. And GEN could have waited a year. Some of the plot's ideas are pretty good if not grand, but the movie does suffer because it was rushed.
A crossover is always at risk of looking contrived and fanwanky, and GEN unfortunately succeeds in proving just that. There is no need for Kirk's era to be returned to in order to pass the imaginary baton. Worse, the TNG movie tramples all over Kirk and company, and even hampers on its own continuity in the process the moment Scotty of all characters is brought in. I can imagine some casual viewers going "SQUEE!" in the theater, like how some people did when watching "Nemesis" in 2002 when Riker spits "do the Kirk maneuver" (and it doesn't help if your (then-)current franchise is getting positive reactions only by digging up the previous crew as
The 1701-D, which looked far better on the big screen than anything I could have imagined prior to (the exterior, which needed the third nacelle, is glorious and the interior with the darker lighting is magnificent) gets the best destruction of any Enterprise, but ignoring continuity of Picard being casual over antique artifacts now trashed, fans now have to contrive reasons for the VISOR gambit with static shield frequency to make it work. (Okay, shield nutation/random frequency shifting requires more energy and processing time so they try to not use it unless they must but that was never a dramatic plot point before... but still just about works.)
And you nailed it. GEN also, indeed, did to TOS what DSC and JJTrek has done to TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY in the way the youtube grifters think somehow is a new phenomenon to the 21st century. It clearly isn't and GEN clearly does the same "tragic ending" trope that, yes, is out of place. Kirk being killed was a mistake and I've made my argument in the recent past as to why the original take was more daring than what was shown on screen with a drawn out silly speech and whimper. But either take aside, it was just a dumb move to make.
GEN, on top of misusing Kirk and causing a big gaping continuity hole with "Relics" and other assorted TNG episodes (again, 21st century continuity issues are. not. unique. or. special.), also went the same pathetic route of injecting the sappy comedy act. The new Enterprise, with Captain Notstuartbondeck in charge, keeps doing the same "the hamburger isn't coming in until Tuesday" shtick and promptly killing what weak drama there was regarding the Nexus ribbon, El Aurian refugees (how'd the Feds know about them and how come they're so close to Earth when the Borg just splattered their entire civilization?).
David Carson's direction is sumptuous and he can handle the big screen just as deftly as the small one. His effort is a saving grace. The f/x shots of 1701-D being used as potshot target practice ramped up the tensions nicely, and close-ups of people reacting just before a big explosion happens may have been done twice, but the two incidents were far enough apart... and the slow-mo of
So is Dennis McCarthy's music, which is sublime and carries the themes of the movie spectacularly. Particularly the dogfight and 1701-D destruction. Horner's the best, a lot of Goldsmith's material is also great (it helped buoy TFF), but McCarthy's just feels larger and an improvement on the season 1-3 feel, and clearly a considerably epic departure from the lamentable seasons 5-7 style of "symphony of a bog loaded with frogs farting in the water in almost-perfect synchronicity" that helped drag TNG into the mire during its latter half, IMHO. (DS9 would definitely be on the upswing and giving a new lease on life to a number of episode soundtracks as well, esp. seasons 5 and 6.) The soundtrack CD, the one with the shiny cover I was excited to get, had poor audio mastering as every track was so quiet that the player had to be on maximum volume... the expanded edition with more tracks (sweet!) as well as sound effects (double sweet!) was an improvement in that area as well.
Malcolm McDowell as inspired casting but apart from a couple one-liners he's remarkably generic with an underwhelming plot that tries to be big but doesn't really convince. Why not just fly a ship close enough to the ribbon then jump out like how Kirk was going to parachute to the planet or Spock in TMP with the space suit? Or is one supposed to be nekkid or wearing just cotton longjohns since the ribbon obliterates any inorganic compounds but readily welcomes all organic mushy material?
The Klingon subplot is also generic, made clunky by shoehorning in a "500th attempt to reclaim the Empire" subplot that worked for casual viewers just as well as it had for everyone that paid attention to every syllable during the Klingon civil war subplot (meaning: this subplot was as throwaway and contrived as herding in the TOS crew.)
Also, Guinan states "it's impossible to go in..." followed soon later with "...oh, but if you do go in you'll never want to leave" pretty much shatters the movie right there and then. I can see what they were trying to do for the overall themes, and on some plot points and motifs this movie has genuine potential, but this one's a virtual clunker thanks to her two lines that give it all away.
Meanwhile, "All Good Things" has the cinematic and epic scale that held together...
Of all the crimes against fans made by Generations, this was perhaps the most egregious. Not only was it reused footage, it was reused footage of the climactic scene from the fracking PREVIOUS MOVIE!! Did they think no one would notice?
And I got really tired of the constant use of the BoP. Seriously, is that the economical workhorse of the Klingon Empire?
I will say the destruction of the Enterprise-D caught me completely by surprise. I didn't see that one coming. They did good model work and practical effects work with the saucer section crash landing.
And I liked whenever Kirk showed up.
Too bad they killed off the Duras Sisters. I liked them better than Duras himself. And we could've seen more of them on DS9.
You can tell Ron Moore and Brannon Braga were in their 20s when they wrote this film. Their only idea for drama was death, death, and more death.
I wasn't bothered by the gradual shift from TNG to DS9 uniforms. I liked that this one time Star Trek caught a crew in the middle of a uniform switch.
And I liked the modifications to the bridge.
But I prefer VOY's version of Stellar Cartography to this movie's.
And I liked whenever Kirk showed up.
Too bad they killed off the Duras Sisters. I liked them better than Duras himself. And we could've seen more of them on DS9.
You can tell Ron Moore and Brannon Braga were in their 20s when they wrote this film. Their only idea for drama was death, death, and more death.
I wasn't bothered by the gradual shift from TNG to DS9 uniforms. I liked that this one time Star Trek caught a crew in the middle of a uniform switch.
And I liked the modifications to the bridge.
But I prefer VOY's version of Stellar Cartography to this movie's.
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If you take everything with Kirk, Scotty and Chekov out, I think the movie would have been just fine.
I always thought a cool final bit would have been to leave Kirk’s fate on Veridian 3 open, then have one of the final scenes be him joining Spock on Romulus, pointed ears and all.
I always thought a cool final bit would have been to leave Kirk’s fate on Veridian 3 open, then have one of the final scenes be him joining Spock on Romulus, pointed ears and all.
I love that the videogame adaptation had two possible endings: one which adheres to the movie, and one which does the complete opposite (the Enterprise surviving and Kirk not dying). Its like the programmers of the game were listening to us, lol.
Yeah it was just... cheap. Especially as TNG/DS9 had already introduced us to various other vessels, I think for a big screen movie, just showing that same old BoP, which goes back to the days of TSFS (further damaging it's credibility) was just lame in every way.
Not a fan of the film, I would rather rewatch Nemesis than Generation. The latter has too many implausible plotholes for me to ignore. However I did not mind the death of Kirk, at least he did not die alone as he predicted in FF. Its a minor point but dying from a house fire on France, Earth in 24th century should never happen, they were not living in cheap social housing ala 21st century style.
I agree that on the whole the film was well lit, however in the scenes in Data's quarters, you can clearly see LeVar Burtons eyes behind the visor, which takes me out of the film every time I watch it. If the film ever gets a remaster, it'd be good to get that CG'd. I'd also like the movie to get a new blu-ray transfer as it got a weird tint applied to it.
I'm going to have to hardcore disagree with that. TNG just ended six months earlier. I hadn't seen a new TOS Movie in three years. I thought, "The Hell with Picard and the Enterprise-D, I want to know what's going on with Kirk!"
I'd warmed up to TNG by that point, and then this movie came along and reversed all of it. Let me type that in capitals to more accurately convey how I felt: I'd warmed up to TNG but this movie reversed ALL OF IT. Suddenly my view of TNG reverted back to what it was before I saw "Unification" and had given the series another chance.
If they didn't have any TOS characters in the film, it's true that it wouldn't have soured me like that. But Generations didn't look or feel different enough or feel distant in time enough that I felt, "This is a movie!" It felt like "This is just TNG on the big screen and they turned off the lights!" First Contact and the Enterprise-E gave me the Movie Feel. It's hard to describe, but I know it when I see it.
I hear you, but this particular script did not do the original characters justice. Ron Moore WROTE Relics and that alone should have factored into the story. Killing Kirk was such a dumb move. Bringing him to the 24th century was brilliant. I wanted an epic story, like a multi-doctor story. But the story was ruined by killing a character of that magnitude. I always say that you can pass the torch without killing the torchbearer.
Any redshirt could have done what Kirk did in this movie. They didn't need the nexus at all in this story.
They didn't need KIRK. They needed to do a story that connected the two eras. Something that thrust the ship into the future where Kirk and crew helped Picard and crew with their minds, despite the technological disadvantage.
Generations soured me on the franchise to a point that I never really got over it. I still watch, but it just isn't the same.
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