More TOS engine room pics

[Maurice]

It's difficult to assess al the proportions because of perspective and the angles. Can you render a side elevation with the perspective zeroed?

The "boxes" where the arms go in should have rounded corners.

• Here's the best angle I've ever seen to show how the pod hangs off the side.
• Note that the "box" on the main sombrero does not have a flat back edge. See the above photo to confirm this.
• Note too the # 1 on the side of the bottom hangar pod. The # 3 appears to the right of the opening where you have a gray rectangle. I think it's logical to assume there is a # 2 on the unseen side.

 

[Ian Simpson]

It's difficult to assess al the proportions because of perspective and the angles. Can you render a side elevation with the perspective zeroed?

The "boxes" where the arms go in should have rounded corners.

• Here's the best angle I've ever seen to show how the pod hangs off the side.
• Note that the "box" on the main sombrero does not have a flat back edge. See the above photo to confirm this.
• Note too the # 1 on the side of the bottom hangar pod. The # 3 appears to the right of the opening where you have a gray rectangle. I think it's logical to assume there is a # 2 on the unseen side.

this is another awesome find. Now I can see how much I missed also the bottom pod is not flat. I can see there is a grey opening from this angle. I wish there were a top down elevation. I will post some pics with some adjustments soon.

 

[Ian Simpson]

Ok so here are some adjustments
k72 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
k7mk4 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
k7 bottom by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
k7 back by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
k7 top down by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
k73 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

 

[StarCruiser]

I’m curious - are all the clamshells supposed to actually open up like shuttlebay doors? If so, would there not be a tiny gap at each door section? Never really understood the purpose of that design otherwise. As inaccurate as the old AMT model was, it actually made a little more structural sense to me. Woefully over scaled, though, with the tiny Enterprise they included with the original kit. They scaled that thing to be nearly as big as SD01.

I think the tiny Enterprise was supposed to be "in the background" - rather than to scale but...?

 

[137th Gebirg]

That is how it was portrayed in the episode, yes, but the original 70's-era model kit included a tiny little 2-piece enterprise model, just over an inch long, that implied K-7 was positively immense. Don't know if I still have it. Probably lost to time now.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

I’m curious - are all the clamshells supposed to actually open up like shuttlebay doors? If so, would there not be a tiny gap at each door section? Never really understood the purpose of that design otherwise. As inaccurate as the old AMT model was, it actually made a little more structural sense to me. Woefully over scaled, though, with the tiny Enterprise they included with the original kit. They scaled that thing to be nearly as big as SD01.

K-7 is based on a design developed by Douglas Aircraft back in the 60's. The clamshell design looks the way it does because the pods were supposed to be blasted into orbit all folded up; the pods were supposed to be unfurled and inflated once in orbit. The link posted by @StarCruiser includes an illustration of how this was supposed to work.

So, if you want K-7 to look like it was supposed to be transported to its location and then unfolded a la the Douglas Aircraft design, the clamshell leaves should have a very slight gap (but keep in mind, the gap between the plates would probably be on the order of millimeters; perhaps too small to be visible given the size of K-7). If you want the station to look like it did in "The Trouble with Tribbles", I'm guessing it would look more like what @Ian Simpson illustrated.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Here's the best angle I've ever seen to show how the pod hangs off the side.

I don't get to say something like this very often but: WHOA--I have never seen this photo of the K-7 miniature before!

@Ian Simpson your revisions look very close to the photo @Maurice posted. It looks like the only thing you're missing is that long skinny blue pole that descends from the hangar bay module at the bottom of the station.

 

[Maurice]

I'd never seen that photo until (I think) @Mark2000 shared it with me a while ago.

A few things to keep in mind modeling this:

• The edges where clamshells overlap the one inside should probably be straight up and down and not angled
• The large sombrero is merely a larger model of the three smaller ones, and while there were modifications done by Datin, it's always best to start with the idea that they're supposed to be identical and only vary them (other than size) where photos indicate that was the case (like the back edges of the "boxes")
• Pay close attention to how the cones stick out of the smaller sombreros: the circle of the aperture looks like it's not symmetrical around the base of the cone (link to pic). Did Datin actually put a ring around the base of the cones on the smaller sombreros?

 

[Ian Simpson]

I'd never seen that photo until (I think) @Mark2000 shared it with me a while ago.

A few things to keep in mind modeling this:

• The edges where clamshells overlap the none inside should probably be straight up and down and not angled
• The large sombrero is merely a larger model of the three smaller ones, and while there were modifications done by Datin, it's always best to start with the idea that they're supposed to be identical and only vary them (other than size) where photos indicate that was the case (like the back edges of the "boxes")
• Pay close attention to how the cones stick out of the smaller sombreros: the circle of the aperture looks like it's not symmetrical around the base of the cone (link to pic). Did Datin actually put a ring around the base of the cones on the smaller sombreros?

Thanks for that Maurice.

Ok so I did notice the clashell angles and mine are 90 degrees though I have made them smooth.
I did make a copy of the centre structure to make the smaller ones.
I have adjusted the position of the cones on each pod to be central.

I have made the pod ends more hexagon shape rather than square, as I studied the pic 48989805442_f000f38ec4qw_o by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

I thaught that is was more a smooth hex shape than square, seems to make sense to me as the doors on the station were more of a distorted hex shape.

Here are some updated renders, as for the windows I cant put them all in the same position (though I wold like to) as there is no reference in witch to do this,

back view by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
centr top by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
Single pod view by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
I'm going to experiment with some shaders today, I was thinking of a sort of panelling not Aztec but similar.
Thanks to all you guys whom are helping me with this project it's really appreciated

 

[Ian Simpson]

I've been trying out a material for the hull and I have made the windows the same size.
HighresScreenshot00009 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
Thoughts?

 

[Professor Moriarty]

I like the material! Especially how you're not using the same direction for the brushed metal on each panel.

Re the window sizes: If this was my model, I'd make them a bit shorter vertically (large windows will make the station itself look smaller, and K-7 is supposed to be big) and I'd also probably vary the width and height to add visual interest.

 

[Ian Simpson]

I like the material! Especially how you're not using the same direction for the brushed metal on each panel.

Re the window sizes: If this was my model, I'd make them a bit shorter vertically (large windows will make the station itself look smaller, and K-7 is supposed to be big) and I'd also probably vary the width and height to add visual interest.

Yeah I was thinking they need adjustment, I wish I had some hi def ref material, I'll tweak and post.

 

[MGagen]

Fantastic new images, Maurice. Especially the side view showing the attachment of the "pod." I know Richard Datin referred to having additional photos that would have aided Greg Jein in his Tribulations reconstructions if he had asked. I wonder if this is one of them?

Looks like I need to revise my model...





By the way, I wonder where the "UHF" antenna is in those photos. Was it added later, or was it removed before filming. I've seen in in some stage photos, but it doesn't show up in the broadcast footage. Probably a victim of the matte work, like the "VHF rabbit ears."

M.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

If that was really on the K-7 studio miniature, I say thank the Great Bird it was murdered in matte; it looks like a Quidditch goalpost.

 

[Ian Simpson]

Ok so I have done a lot of texturing, this is the second spaceship model that I have done and I have a lot to learn, so any helpful cements are welcome.

HighresScreenshot00010 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

HighresScreenshot00011 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
HighresScreenshot00015 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
HighresScreenshot00014 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
HighresScreenshot00013 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr
HighresScreenshot00012 by Ian Simpson, on Flickr

 

[Henoch]

Nice work! I'd think finding Space Stations in space would be easier if they were a little brighter, though. Even Deep Space Stations (like DS9) were in a solar system for a little light.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

This is only your second model? Dang. My second model looked like a rickety tinfoil paper airplane compared to this.

From what I can see I think your materials look fine. I still suck at lighting so I won't try to give you advice on that (other than to agree with @Henoch that your main light source prolly should be brighter and/or check your imaging and/or gamma settings; are you perhaps rendering for sRGB but accidentally saving in linear or something like that?). What I would consider looking at:

• Round off the corners and edges of your windows. Razor-sharp 90° corners and edges are a dead giveaway that you're looking at a model.
• Vary the size of your windows (we already talked about that in an earlier post).
• Consider putting simple interiors or some sort of randomized texture behind your windows--anything to give the viewer the impression that there are rooms behind those beige rectangles.

 

[Ian Simpson]

This is only your second model? Dang. My second model looked like a rickety tinfoil paper airplane compared to this.

From what I can see I think your materials look fine. I still suck at lighting so I won't try to give you advice on that (other than to agree with @Henoch that your main light source prolly should be brighter and/or check your imaging and/or gamma settings; are you perhaps rendering for sRGB but accidentally saving in linear or something like that?). What I would consider looking at:

• Round off the corners and edges of your windows. Razor-sharp 90° corners and edges are a dead giveaway that you're looking at a model.
• Vary the size of your windows (we already talked about that in an earlier post).
• Consider putting simple interiors or some sort of randomized texture behind your windows--anything to give the viewer the impression that there are rooms behind those beige rectangles.

Thanks for that, I have looked at the original model and made loads of versions for the windows and perhaps I should mention that the windows are part of the topology I'm not sure how to "paint" windows that glow yet. The windows I have put in are as close as I can get (for now) I cold try chamfering them slightly, as for "trick" interiors I have looked through YouTube videos on this subject and I can't make it work for me which is why I ended up shrinking the whole interior bridge set and placing in inside my ship model, Looks good though.
If you know of a material for the windows I do have a few TOS interiors that I could use.

I seem to be "ok" at interiors but ship exteriors seem to be a different beast, as I said I have a lot to learn.

 

[lewisniven]

Looks like your well on you way with the modelling, it looks great! Lighting is defintely the key to making it look realistic, are you using an actual sun lamp or another type of light? Ideally you want to be modelling to scale and using a sun lamp with a physically correct strength value. For example if you're using blender the physically correct value for a sun lamp is 1376, you can then use exposure settings to make it look correct in your renders.

For your hull material, trying using your texture just a roughness map, as opposed to a diffuse, this is how you get that 'panel shimmer' as like rakes across it and it makes the surface look more interesting.

 

[Ian Simpson]

Looks like your well on you way with the modelling, it looks great! Lighting is defintely the key to making it look realistic, are you using an actual sun lamp or another type of light? Ideally you want to be modelling to scale and using a sun lamp with a physically correct strength value. For example if you're using blender the physically correct value for a sun lamp is 1376, you can then use exposure settings to make it look correct in your renders.

For your hull material, trying using your texture just a roughness map, as opposed to a diffuse, this is how you get that 'panel shimmer' as like rakes across it and it makes the surface look more interesting.

Hi thanks for advice I am modelling in 3ds max I have done the shading in substance painter and the rendering is in the unreal engine. You say I should use sunlight for the space scenes?
I'm not very well into unreal engine i.e shading tricks for fake rooms ect to be honest I'm still learning 3ds max still after 2 years 8 months
I will tweak the windows and include the Enterprise model to try and work out the scale and post some updates.

Thanks guys for your continued help.