Would you accept a flexible Star Trek timeline?

[M.A.C.O.]

But Star Wars is only a decade younger and it doesn’t relax on those, and Star Trek has had more in common with it than any of your examples, except perhaps Doctor Who, which again isn’t recasting, say, the Fourth Doctor because he might be seen as the iconic iteration, along with Sarah Jane Smith and K-9. The closest it ever came to that was in the early, off-canon films with Peter Cushing. I mean some property owners can actually choose showrunners that can keep going with new ideas.

I excluded Star Wars because of the sheer volume of material the other aforementioned IPs have in comparison to Star Wars. Disney torpedoed all expanded universe comics, books and games when they bought the IP. Now Star Wars canon consists of the movies and the TV shows.

Prequel Trilogy - Divisive at the time but finding reappraisal and support recently

Clone Wars + Rebels - Cancelled after several seasons and then brought back due to popularity.

Rogue One - A film where the characters, whose names nobody can remember. Band together to get a thing, to do a thing, in another movie... A glorified commercial for Star Wars/ANH.

Solo - The first Star Wars to flop

Original Trilogy - The culture icon. What everybody knows and loves

Sequel Trilogy - So far has largely been reuse and remakes of the OT with a different cast.

Resistance + Forces of Destiny - Both cancelled after 1 season.

The Mandolorian - To Be Determined


Compared to Trek with it's 7 different series (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, DSC), 755 episodes, and 13 movies. There is a stark difference between Trek and Wars. The same can be said about Doctor Who. Which has 851 episodes, across a dozen or so incarnations. Plus movies and weeks of audio book material.


When I talk about a Trek having a looser continuity, I mean in reference to what Trek can access for the movies. Should we ever get another Trek movie (looking unlikely as we've been on a 3 year hiatus). I wouldn't want anything off limits. Paramount will never go for a TNG or DS9 reboot on the big screen. But if they kept the Kelvin timeline, I'd like to see that crew cross swords with the Borg, meet a young Odo (or another changeling), meet the Q, bust up a Ferengi smuggling operation, etc.

The only ones who keep strict canon are us die hard fans. But I think we can afford to be lax on somethings going forward. It's not like TPTB have the imagination or inclination to do/show more with other notable races in Trek or crews that are outside the TOS family.

 

[suarezguy]

I think the question should be, do we accept a vague Star Trek timeline, where something like TOS happened in the world of Disco and vice-versa?

Might work, might not, not necessarily better than what was the approach before.

Vague like the X-Men franchise, where Bolivar Trask goes from being a tall black man in The Last Stand to a diminutive white guy in Days of Future Past and movies and events are ignored in favour of whatever they're doing at the moment.

Going that far no way, it's really hard to believe in or care about a sequel, let alone when it still does try to then also briefly focus on or exploit the nostalgia and supposedly long-standing relationships, when it's that loose and careless about continuity as that series became.

 

[fireproof78]

The only ones who keep strict canon are us die hard fans. But I think we can afford to be lax on somethings

Yes, we can be much more flexible.

 

[Nerys Myk]

But suppose you had to release a perfectly reasonable tie-in called The Official Star Trek Uniform Guide? How would you handle the 2250s?

Since the book is called The Official Star Trek Uniform Guide, and not The Official Starfleet Uniform Guide it wouldn’t be a problem.

 

[BillJ]

But suppose you had to release a perfectly reasonable tie-in called The Official Star Trek Uniform Guide? How would you handle the 2250s?

Throw them all in there and let the fans sort it out. Allowing us to come to our own conclusions for how it all fits together has worked for the last fifty-plus years.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

Since the book is called The Official Star Trek Uniform Guide, and not The Official Starfleet Uniform Guide it wouldn’t be a problem.

I said above it would be written from an in-universe point of view (similar to Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, which leaves background notes to italics).

Throw them all in there and let the fans sort it out. Allowing us to come to our own conclusions for how it all fits together has worked for the last fifty-plus years.

No, because a famous Starfleet in-universe expert couldn’t do that. They would be expected to present a meaningful, consistent narrative with proper illustrations from start to finish, and that doesn’t work if nobody can be sure precisely what the crew was wearing on Talos IV as opposed to Short Treks on one side of the visit and DSC on the other. My solution would be to have a separate DSC guide that would pretend the bright colors were used in the 2250s already, implying but not speculating that, as far as DSC is concerned, even Kirk’s crew was wearing uniform jackets in that style.

 

[fireproof78]

Throw them all in there and let the fans sort it out. Allowing us to come to our own conclusions for how it all fits together has worked for the last fifty-plus years.

Exactly. There have been so many uniform variants over the years that I think fans could reasonably put it all together. In universe, you can treat it as variants based upon location, command or captain's choice.

 

[BillJ]

No, because a famous Starfleet in-universe expert couldn’t do that.

Sure you can. I don't even treat it as a single timeline, but I could wedge in some non-sense explanation that has Discovery and TOS co-existing.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

Sure you can. I don't even treat it as a single timeline, but I could wedge in some non-sense explanation that has Discovery and TOS co-existing.

The point of an expert in-universe voice is to make it impossible to write nonsense, and instead say precisely that no, the subdued colors were never used in the 2250s as far as DSC is concerned, and neither were the bright uniform jackets or the blue Discovery uniforms (at least not in that exact style) from the TOS point of view.

 

[fireproof78]

The point of an expert in-universe voice is to make it impossible to write nonsense, and instead say precisely that no, the subdued colors were never used in the 2250s as far as DSC is concerned, and neither were the bright uniform jackets or the blue Discovery uniforms (at least not in that exact style) from the TOS point of view.

This is a fictional universe. Writing nonsense is a part of the creation, since not everything is going to line up.

 

[BillJ]

Sure you can. I don't even treat it as a single timeline, but I could wedge in some non-sense explanation that has Discovery and TOS co-existing.

Discovery blues - the Starfleet "home" uniform used within Federation boundaries until 2264.

"The Cage" pullovers - worn by Starfleet officers assigned to the UESPA deep space exploration arm until 2264.

Mustard/Blue/Red - a variant that was tinkered with on and off until 2264 when it became the Fleet standard uniform for all personnel.

Forty five seconds.

 

[fireproof78]

Discovery blues - the Starfleet "home" uniform used within Federation boundaries until 2264.

"The Cage" pullovers - worn by Starfleet officers assigned to the UESPA deep space exploration organization until 2264.

Mustard/Blue/Red - a variant that was tinkered with on and off until 2264 when it became the Fleet standard uniform for all personnel.

Forty five seconds.

So, when's your expert book going to be published?

 

[BillJ]

So, when's your expert book going to be published?

I'm so good, I almost sold myself on it.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

Discovery blues - the Starfleet "home" uniform used within Federation boundaries until 2264.

"The Cage" pullovers - worn by Starfleet officers assigned to the UESPA deep space exploration arm until 2264.

Mustard/Blue/Red - a variant that was tinkered with on and off until 2264 when it became the Fleet standard uniform for all personnel.

Forty five seconds.

If DSC were to remake “The Cage”, there is no reason to believe they would invest time and effort into a uniform style that doesn’t fit what they’ve already shown to the viewers, before and after the events on Talos IV. Likewise, there is no reason to believe they’d change much in a flashforward with Kirk’s crew (all recast). A tie-in ties into what the canon would do in order to maintain the spirit of the parent show — it shouldn’t put forward a local hypothesis that is bound to be contradicted sooner or later.

 

[BillJ]

If DSC were to remake “The Cage”, there is no reason to believe they would invest time and effort into a uniform style that doesn’t fit what they’ve already shown to the viewers, before and after the events on Talos IV. Likewise, there is no reason to believe they’d change much in a flashforward with Kirk’s crew (all recast). A tie-in ties into what the canon would do in order to maintain the spirit of the parent show — it shouldn’t put forward a local hypothesis that is bound to be contradicted sooner or later.

In Trek, everything gets contradicted sooner or later. And Discovery is unlikely to remake "The Cage" since they incorporated it into an episode and have already moved past it.

My point being, it isn't hard to incorporate the various uniforms into a sensible whole if one wants.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

But it is, since Pike’s crew would have to switch to the subdued pullovers just in time for “The Cage”, then back into their bright jackets before DSC S2. The Enterprise as a whole would have to undergo the same magical back-and-forth (then back in time for the second pilot). Why do that when everything has been redesigned deliberately?

Far better to tie into TOS and DSC separately if one cannot address these issues head-on, in-universe without contortions.

 

[BillJ]

But it is, since Pike’s crew would have to switch to the subdued pullovers just in time for “The Cage”, then back into their bright jackets before DSC S2. The Enterprise as a whole would have to undergo the same magical back-and-forth (then back in time for the second pilot). Why do that when everything has been redesigned deliberately?

"Mustard/Blue/Red - a variant that was tinkered with on and off until 2264 when it became the Fleet standard uniform for all personnel." Pike isn't sold on either and goes back and forth. Works well enough from a timeline perspective.

Far better to tie into TOS and DSC separately if one cannot address these issues head-on, in-universe without contortions.

I tend to agree, I treat them as separate timelines. But, at the same time, people that want to treat it as a unified whole shouldn't be silenced or ran out of threads either. I enjoy reading the various ways we all "cope" with the differences.

 

[1001001]

Now, what about those of us who don't care?

 

[fireproof78]

But it is, since Pike’s crew would have to switch to the subdued pullovers just in time for “The Cage”, then back into their bright jackets before DSC S2.

DSC Season 1 happens after the Cage so there is no switching. The only transition would be from Kelvin Uniforms, to pullovers, to DSC uniforms.

As @Ricky Spanish noted the pullovers could be uniforms utilized by United Earth Probe Agency Authority, rather than Federation Starfleet proper.

Now, what about those of us who don't care?

And you call yourself a Star Trek fan!????


/s

 

[1001001]

And you call yourself a Star Trek fan!????

No.

I fucking hate Star Trek.

I don't even know what I'm doing here!