Poll Is Rey a Mary Sue?

[fireproof78]

In the name of fairness and not derailing other threads this thread is dedicated to all Rey is/is not a Mary Sue argumentation.

Be polite, be civil, and post your arguments below.

 

[Smellmet]

At last *goes straight back to the other thread*

 

[JoeZhang]

That time she went from killing small animals in the desert to flying a military fighter plane in a major combat operation WITH NO TRAINING and not only only surviving but making a one in a million shot!

Give me a break.

 

[fireproof78]

I'll put my argument very succinctly-no, she is not. She is not perfect at everything, nor is she an author's avatar. She has fears, limits and insecurities. She is plagued with self-doubt, and a struggle to find where she belongs.

No, she isn't better at everything than everyone else. She beats Kylo when he is wounded by a bowcaster that blows an armored stormtrooper back.

She is a trained survivalist who has a working knowledge of ships and parts. Yes, that translates in to fighting with a different weapon. Weapon's training is weird like that.

No, she isn't a better mechanic than Han. She just knows what part is causing the issue.

Finally, if she is a Mary Sue, then so is Luke and Anakin. So, neither new, nor offensive to Star Wars if we are equally applying the criteria.

 

[Campe]

Finally, if she is a Mary Sue, then so is Luke and Anakin.

So much this. As I've suggested elsewhere, if you really wanted to apply realism to the Star Wars saga, Luke Skywalker would not have been able to destroy the Death Star, let alone survive the opening salvos of the Battle of Yavin.

 

[Relayer1]

Finally, if she is a Mary Sue, then so is Luke and Anakin.

Exactly.

Anyone recall Luke's lengthy and in depth Jedi training at a weekend retreat on Dagobah ?

 

[DigificWriter]

We're really going to let baseless and nonsensical conspiracy-theory complaints be discussed openly now?

 

[Smellmet]

We're really going to let baseless and nonsensical conspiracy-theory complaints be discussed openly now?

This is merely an exercise in removing this crap from threads that had been completely derailed by it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's a term that's been co-opted to mean "character I don't like" rather than its original meaning.

 

[fireproof78]

We're really going to let baseless and nonsensical conspiracy-theory complaints be discussed openly now?

Better than constantly derailing threads.

 

[Campe]

We're really going to let baseless and nonsensical conspiracy-theory complaints be discussed openly now?

Is it better to leave the topic buried (but really not so buried as they seem to take precedence) in other threads? I applaud @Dry Bones 37 for opening the thread. But I’ll leave the judgment as for whether or not it’s a good idea to the mods.

 

[Professor Zoom]

She's no more a Mary Sue than Luke is.

 

[Zenogias]

We're really going to let baseless and nonsensical conspiracy-theory complaints be discussed openly now?

This is the absolute problem with the current state of nerd fandom on the internet.

Valid criticisms and topics of debate are dismissed with non-sensical terms like "Conspiracy Theory", as if critiquing hollywood writers is akin to claiming to earth is flat.

How dare you question the thing I like openly! What do you think this is, a free country?!?

 

[fireproof78]

This is the absolute problem with the current state of nerd fandom on the internet.

Valid criticisms and topics of debate are dismissed with non-sensical terms like "Conspiracy Theory", as if critiquing hollywood writers is akin to claiming to earth is flat.

How dare you question the thing I like openly! What do you think this is, a free country?!?

How about we make our arguments about why it is valid, rather than making remarks about nerd culture? The purpose of this thread is to discuss this point, so please feel free to argue your point here regarding the Mary Sue status, rather than the current state of nerd fandom on the internet.

 

[Zenogias]

How about we make our arguments about why it is valid, rather than making remarks about nerd culture? The purpose of this thread is to discuss this point, so please feel free to argue your point here.

You can't have a real discussion when you have comments like the one I was referencing that instantly poison the well and frame any dissent as "crazy conspiracy theories".

Also, I noticed that your response to him had much less of a biting tone than your response to me, despite us both being "guilty" of not making an on-topic argument.. I wonder why that is?

 

[fireproof78]

You can't have a real discussion when you have comments like the one I was referencing that instantly poison the well and frame any dissent as "crazy conspiracy theories".

Also, I noticed that your response to him had much less of a biting tone than your response to me, despite us both being "guilty" of not making an on-topic argument.. I wonder why that is?

My tone is nothing of the sort. I happen to know the poster a bit better and my short response to them is appropriate to our prior interactions.

As for poisoning the well, my policy is ignore it. It isn't additive to the discussion, so instead of worrying about things being called conspiracy theories, I'll focus on the actual discussion in this thread.

So, please, feel free to make an on topic argument

 

[The Wormhole]

Is Rey a Mary Sue?
No
/THREAD

 

[fireproof78]

Is Rey a Mary Sue?
No
/THREAD

Thank you.

 

[JD]

This is the absolute problem with the current state of nerd fandom on the internet.

Valid criticisms and topics of debate are dismissed with non-sensical terms like "Conspiracy Theory", as if critiquing hollywood writers is akin to claiming to earth is flat.

How dare you question the thing I like openly! What do you think this is, a free country?!?

When people actually bring up valid criticism, it's fine. The problem with the "Mary Sue" argument is that it's not valid, and all it goes down to some people not being able to handle a competent, capable woman as the hero instead of a man.
Rey is not a Mary Sue, because we have seen that she is not perfect, she is not instantly better than all of the other heroes, and everything she does has a reasonable explanation tied to skills we already see her display.
She can fly the Falcon because she has spent her whole life crawling around in ships, and is already familiar with it.
She is good with a lightsaber because we have already seen her fighting with her staff. I even saw people pointing out that her lightsaber technique was the same kind of technique someone would use with a staff.
Rey could the mind trick because Kylo already used it on her, so she just mimicked him.
She didn't defeat Kylo Ren, she managed to hold her own against an already severely wounded Kylo Ren, and the fight ended when the ground split between them and separated them.

 

[Garak]

It's probably more constructive to talk about the male characters and how they're basically all Gary Stus

Let's start with Luke Skywalker - by the time we meet him he wasn't even able to use his considerable white privilege to amount to anything more than a basic farm hand. Probably a virgin too. But before you know it he's blowing up a Death Star