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Arrowverse's Crisis on Infinite Earths to be 5-Part Crossover

What 'rules'?
Do we really need to go through this again?
Viewer assumption =/= a set of rules set by the makers of the show Arrowverse shows.

At no point has there ever been a hard set of rules given other than different versions of Earth exist.

So far we've only seen a couple of them. Earth-2 and Earth-Flashpoint are closish in tune with Earth-1. Earth's 3, 38, and 90 on the other hand are missing people and/or have non-identical counterparts. Earth-15 is a dead planet. So this sternly claiming there's a "rule" that all the Earths must conform to the trope of "every one and every thing is represented and identical but slightly different" is hogwash.

The makers of the Arrowverse shows are giving us a proper multiverse rather than a trope one.
 
Marc Guggenheim announced production on “Crisis on Infinite Earths” began today. Yesterday Brandon Routh said he was doing hair tests for Superman. No pictures of himself. But a picture in the makeup room showing the recent drawing Alex Ross did of him as Kingdom Come Superman, along with an older KC Superman statue as references.
 
Viewer assumption =/= a set of rules set by the makers of the show Arrowverse shows.

At no point has there ever been a hard set of rules given other than different versions of Earth exist.

Once again: I never said it was an unbreakable rule, nor am I asserting that they cannot or should not change it. I am merely commenting on the fact that they have followed a pattern up to this point that they are no longer following. Commenting on a thing does not require taking an ideological stand on it. Observation is not judgment. First one has to accurately describe reality before one can formulate an opinion one way or the other.

In science and reason, you base your model only on the available evidence, and freely amend or abandon that model when new evidence contradicts it. It is certainly wrong to assume that your current model is inviolable for all time and that any further evidence must be rejected -- but that does not mean it is an "assumption" to formulate a model in the first place. It's an extrapolation from the data, a working guideline to use as long as it remains useful, i.e. until new data conflicts with it and requires it to be changed. As long as you don't mistake it for an inviolable article of faith, as long as you change it as needed to fit the facts rather than the reverse, then you're fine.

So the statement that all onscreen doppelgangers up to this point have been identical to their counterparts is merely a correct description of the data. Back when 100% of doppelgangers were identical, it was reasonable to use the model "doppelgangers are identical and contemporaneous with their counterparts (as far as we know)." Last year, when Elseworlds canonized the 1990 The Flash as Earth-90, this implicitly established the existence of at least a few non-identical, non-contemporaneous doppelgangers, but they were rare exceptions to the overall pattern, so the overall model still held with minor modification ("most doppelgangers are identical and contemporaneous"). Now, however, the data from Crisis on Infinite Earths require a major change to the model -- doppelgangers are often non-identical and non-contemporaneous, possibly even more often than not. Acknowledging that we need to adjust our model is not complaining or protesting or denying -- just the opposite.

Certainly I was happier when all doppelgangers were identical and there was a consistent pattern being followed. It's harder to justify there being a parallel Superman or Flash or whatever living a generation earlier or later than another. But data always outweigh hopes and preferences, so I adjust. I'm disappointed, yes, but I don't deny the new data.

It seems reasonable to conjecture that the 53-Earth multiverse established in Crisis on Earth-X is a "local" multiverse of closely parallel Earths that do have identical and contemporaneous doppelgangers as a rule, and that there's a wider multiverse beyond that cluster where the parallels are more indirect. Although that does make Earth-90 an anomaly, because it has at least a half-dozen identical doppelgangers or nearly so (Tina, Julio, Bellows, Trickster, Prank, and Barry as Jay/Henry's doppelganger) along with at least a few non-identical ones (Nora Allen, Iris, Scudder, etc.). Similarly, Sherloque Wells came from Earth-221, and he and Renee Adler have identical doppelgangers on dozens of Earths, including Earth-1.

Of course, the numbering of the Earths has been presented very inconsistently, and it's unclear just who decided on the numbers. So their numbering doesn't necessarily reflect anything about their relative proximity. And of course there's no real way to make sense of a multiverse incorporating different fictional iterations that were never intended to have any in-universe relationship to begin with.
 
I'm the only person who has expressed dismay at the abandonment of what the Arrowverse has previously established regarding Multiversal doppelgangers, but to dismiss what has been previously established as mere "viewer assumption" is to blatantly and directly ignore the contents of the various Arrowverse series themselves.
 
I'm the only person who has expressed dismay at the abandonment of what the Arrowverse has previously established regarding Multiversal doppelgangers, but to dismiss what has been previously established as mere "viewer assumption" is to blatantly and directly ignore the contents of the various Arrowverse series themselves.
no
 
I'm the only person who has expressed dismay at the abandonment of what the Arrowverse has previously established regarding Multiversal doppelgangers, but to dismiss what has been previously established as mere "viewer assumption" is to blatantly and directly ignore the contents of the various Arrowverse series themselves.
You just take this stuff too seriously.
 
If true, that was a shitty way for them to handle it. Rosenbaum should have been approached long ago, and feted like royalty for this project. He was the very best thing about Smallville, and would have been a major highlight of this crossover, especially if he could have shared scenes with Cryer's Lex.
 
You just take this stuff too seriously.

For some of us, in-depth analysis is entertainment, not drudgery. Although in my own mind, I don't have to think about how evidence-based models work; it's a reflex for me. But when people misinterpret it as some kind of histrionic ideological rant, then I need to correct that misapprehension by explaining my thought process.



Hmm. That description of what he was(n't) offered reinforces my suspicion that a lot of these appearances will just be brief cameos.
 
If true, that was a shitty way for them to handle it. Rosenbaum should have been approached long ago, and feted like royalty for this project. He was the very best thing about Smallville, and would have been a major highlight of this crossover, especially if he could have shared scenes with Cryer's Lex.

I agree, he was the best about Smallville and my favorite Lex Luther and character turning from a good in to a darker person.

A real shame they treat Rosenbaum like that
 
Yeah, it's disappointing, but understandable on his part. I wonder if that was the same offer everyone got, or if he was singled out for some reason?
Maybe the others were just happy enough to come back to the roles, for any reason or amount of money?
I wonder if the whole NXIVM thing hadn't happened, if we'd be getting Alisson Mack back?
I'm the only person who has expressed dismay at the abandonment of what the Arrowverse has previously established regarding Multiversal doppelgangers, but to dismiss what has been previously established as mere "viewer assumption" is to blatantly and directly ignore the contents of the various Arrowverse series themselves.
I don't think they've ever actually said that everybody's parallel Earth counterparts always look the same, so they really aren't abandoning anything.
 
That is a surprise, I just never thought of characters from Krypton as a possibility for this.
I wonder why they would go for Krypton, but not Titans? Titans would fit in a lot better with the Arrowverse. Other than being the action being a bit more graphic, and the occaisional F bomb, it really doesn't feel that far off from the Arrowverse in terms of style and tone.
 
They definitely abandoned the "52 Earths" thing, which was never stated anywhere outside of the Crisis on Earth-X crossover and was only mentioned in passing there. I always wondered why they even included it, but that whole big exposition scene was pretty clumsily written (e.g. having Jax confused by the existence of parallel Earths even though he'd met Supergirl the year before). Both before and since that crossover, it's been stated that there are infinite parallels.
To be fair, Crisis on Earth-X was terrible all around. :p
 
I don't think they've ever actually said that everybody's parallel Earth counterparts always look the same, so they really aren't abandoning anything.

It's not about what they said, it's about what the onscreen evidence showed. As I said, one bases a model on the evidence one has, and modifies it if -- but not until -- one receives conflicting evidence. If there's no direct evidence for something, that doesn't prove it can't exist, but it makes it premature to assume it does. Before Elseworlds, there was no evidence for non-identical doppelgangers. After Elseworlds, there was indirect evidence that at least a few existed (assuming Earth-90 was actually meant to be The Flash 1990 and not just a generally similar universe). Now, there will be direct proof that many exist (and indeed that one person can be a doppelganger of a completely different person, like Ray/Superman and Alura/Lois). So we amend our model in response to the evidence, not ahead of it.


I wonder why they would go for Krypton, but not Titans? Titans would fit in a lot better with the Arrowverse. Other than being the action being a bit more graphic, and the occaisional F bomb, it really doesn't feel that far off from the Arrowverse in terms of style and tone.

Have they said they wouldn't try to cross with Titans? I don't recall.

Maybe it's because Krypton is over (unless some other network or streamer picks it up). So far, they only seem to be crossing over with ended shows, not current shows, which could be legally, financially, and logistically trickier to cross with.

Or maybe they wanted to bring in as many alternates of Superman as they could, since they already have three.
 
If true, that was a shitty way for them to handle it. Rosenbaum should have been approached long ago, and feted like royalty for this project. He was the very best thing about Smallville, and would have been a major highlight of this crossover, especially if he could have shared scenes with Cryer's Lex.

Yeah, to me, Rosenbaum is the best on-screen Lex Luthor to date.
 
The parallel world doppelganger trope has always been antithetical to science - whether it be quantum mechanics or basic genetics. If a person's alternate parents get delayed in their baby-making - for what is essentially an infinite number of reasons - even five minutes, that person is going to come out different. Or even if all else is the same, but because dad slipped and fell on a sidewalk a few days prior, he has to shift his weight altering the trajectory of his swimmers. Think of just how little things have to be altered for what might have been your would-be fraternal twin to come out instead of you.

Of course, this a franchise that treats a black hole opening up in orbit like a bad storm. So all of that is out the window.

None the less, it seems a bit ridiculous to employ rationality, science, and reason as validation that all DCW versions of characters must look the same whilst ignoring the actual rationality, science, and reason.
 
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