Romulan-Bajoran standoff

[Prax]

The colors are just the Bajorans equivalent of Starfleet. Red, Teal, Gold = Red, Blue-gray, Brown-gold.

They probably modeled their military on Starfleet, and Starfleet probably sent them trainers/instructors/observers when they were getting back on their feet.

I don't know why Kira wears a blue-gray dress uniform.

 

[kkt]

The colors are just the Bajorans equivalent of Starfleet. Red, Teal, Gold = Red, Blue-gray, Brown-gold.

They probably modeled their military on Starfleet, and Starfleet probably sent them trainers/instructors/observers when they were getting back on their feet.

I don't know why Kira wears a blue-gray dress uniform.

That's okay, I don't know why Starfleet wears white full dress uniforms...

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I don't know why Kira wears a blue-gray dress uniform.

Yeah, I've got nothing for that...

That's okay, I don't know why Starfleet wears white full dress uniforms...

I assume that it's a nod to the RN Tropical Number 1 dress, USN "Choker Whites" and US naval "dinner dress whites" (worn by USN, USCG, MM, PHSC & NOAA Corps). Honestly, whites make more sense than the usual "dresser version of the everyday uniform" as that's normally the semi-formal option historically (usu refered to as Service Uniform in military circles, and smart/business casual on the civilian side).

 

[arch101]

What the Romulans were trying to do in this ep reminded me of all the little grabs the Soviets made during WWII. Like the Romulans, the Soviets were looking to the eventual end of the war and to what they could gain out of it. Having a permanent hospital (base) that close to the wormhole would have all kind of advantages.

 

[kkt]

I assume that it's a nod to the RN Tropical Number 1 dress, USN "Choker Whites" and US naval "dinner dress whites" (worn by USN, USCG, MM, PHSC & NOAA Corps). Honestly, whites make more sense than the usual "dresser version of the everyday uniform" as that's normally the semi-formal option historically (usu refered to as Service Uniform in military circles, and smart/business casual on the civilian side).

Yes, I'm sure, however they don't make much sense in a service in which all the ships and stations are air conditioned.
Starfleet in the original series didn't have them, or they never used them even when they had a shipful of ambassadors; why would they return to a uniform that was antique even then?

It makes me think of the grand English pre-World War I houses, where the males all wore white tie to dinner every night, or black tie when it was informal. I'm sure that would have gotten old at the end of the first week.

Does MM somehow stand for USMC?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Nope, Merchant Marine.

Also, IMO that's the wrong way around.

Tropical dress was by definition, lighter weight, and therefore more comfortable, so would be a better option in air-conditioned, temperature-controlled environments that a heavier, bulkier Winter Dress uniform, in fact a white dress jacket in the TOS style would have made more sense for senior officers than the "Monster Maroons", replacing the green one when green became "Medical".

 

[HelenofBorg]

Okay, I get that the Romulan weapons were important to protect the hospital they had on that moon... Bajor had given permission for the hospital, but not the weapons. I doubt that Kira would have reacted that way had the weapons been Federation, or even Klingon for that matter.

How she reacted to the weapons though, was completely out of proportion. She could have simply filed an offical protest with the Romulan Senate, and with her own government. Using a handful of antiquainted spacecraft was no serious threat to even one Romulan Warbird, but in context she was risking not only her own life and those under her command, but she was also risking indirectly many more lives by causing tension between the Romulans and the Federation, who were uneasy allies at the best of times. When Ross told Cretak to remove the weapons or he would (which is something Kira kind of forced him into doing in order to keep the Romulans on side), it could easily have gone wrong and benefited the Dominion.

I get that Kira is a hothead, that is part of her personality which stays consistent, but that was seriously a dangerous move, and she was lucky it did not blow up in her face.

 

[HelenofBorg]

Oh, and something I forgot to mention, In reality, the Romulans should have asked for permission for the placement of Weapons for the defence of the hospital before actually putting them there. It's only manners when doing business with a world that is supposed to be neutral in the war.

 

[Voth commando1]

if the romulans were angling for some post war fait accompli, then it was really a dumb plan because the bajorans found out about it, like near immediately after they were installed.

And yes Kira nearly risked breaking the Romulan-federation alliance which would have been an absolute godsend for the Dominion.

And the use of the antiquated craft was dumb, Kira was basically willing to sacrifice herself, and those under her command over a game of brinkmanship(which conveniently if the shooting did start, she wouldn't have to see the consequences of, because she'd be dead).

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Kira's actions make total sense to me. Bajor agreed to permit a hospital on their moon, a site for immediate medical aid for injured Romulans fighting on their doorstep, but to turn around and then arm it makes the hospital and by extension Bajor a target. After Sisko liberated the station, there is no mention of Bajor revoking its non-aggression pact with the Dominion, so a fortified enemy encampment within their system would not go down well should the Federation lose the station again.

They make sense to me too, but I think it was more to do with Bajor's choice of whether foreign weapons would be placed on their soil being taken away from them. The Bajorans agreed to a hospital, not a military base. The decision was being made for Bajor by alien powers and for the Federation to turn around and say 'deal with it, the Romulans are more important' is the height of arrogance. Kira was just making a bold statement that Bajor would not be steamrolled by major galactic powers whether they be allies (the Federation) or frenemies (the Romulans)

 

[Prax]

Where in the world was prime Minister Shakar during all this?

And was Bajor still considered neutral at this point?

 

[Tosk]

The colors are just the Bajorans equivalent of Starfleet. Red, Teal, Gold = Red, Blue-gray, Brown-gold.

Bajorans have more than just three. There's also the Grey & Green, and Brown & Purple ones. And a few other variations too.

 

[Timo]

I'm sure the Dominion would have found fault in the way Bajor handled its "nonagression" commitments no matter what; pretending to be neutral would have served no purpose. If the Dominion wanted to invade, it would. But it didn't, so pretenses of neutrality would win Bajor no prizes.

Shakaar just didn't want to waste time and resources for stupid gestures. But Kira did, and no doubt would have enjoyed dying gloriously in the process, or at least got a kick out of the risk. Safety of Bajor was off her hands, as was pretty much everything else at that point. Fighting for the sake of fighting would come naturally for her...

But raising hell worked out well enough in any case. Romulans would not be swayed by minor incidents: allying with the Feds was already so unnatural that a lot of natural instinct would have to be suppressed, including complaining about allies-of-allies' antics. Remember that the Romulans were already tolerating Klingons as part of the deal, too!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[kkt]

Sometimes it's surprising how much neutral powers get away with doing to favor the side they like. For example, Ireland was neutral in World War II; the U.K. would loved to have had airbases there to extended air cover over more of the Atlantic and protect the convoys with food and munitions coming to them from the U.S. and Canada. However, despite their neutrality, Ireland made their weather observations available to the U.K. so they could make forecasts from it -- and did NOT make them available to Germany.

 

[Voth commando1]

The romulans weren't a neutral side though, they were a Federation ally.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The romulans weren't a neutral side though, they were a Federation ally.

I believe the comment was referencing the Bajorans, and how their situation resembled Ireland (as well as Portugal, I assume).

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

They make sense to me too, but I think it was more to do with Bajor's choice of whether foreign weapons would be placed on their soil being taken away from them. The Bajorans agreed to a hospital, not a military base. The decision was being made for Bajor by alien powers and for the Federation to turn around and say 'deal with it, the Romulans are more important' is the height of arrogance. Kira was just making a bold statement that Bajor would not be steamrolled by major galactic powers whether they be allies (the Federation) or frenemies (the Romulans)

Add to that DS9 is still, technically, a Bajoran station. The Bajoran Chamber of Ministers could demand that all Starfleet and Romulan personnel leave, sending in a fleet to blockade the station (especially if Winn got involved along the way).

 

[saladdays]

Add to that DS9 is still, technically, a Bajoran station. The Bajoran Chamber of Ministers could demand that all Starfleet and Romulan personnel leave, sending in a fleet to blockade the station (especially if Winn got involved along the way).

It might be that easy to get Romulans away pretty quickly, but I doubt it would be that simple to get rid of Starfleet, at least on peaceful terms. I'm sure that both Starfleet and Bajor would have some sort of agreement in place that allows for Bajor to take over full control. I'm sure, unless there was a breach of contract, that Bajor couldn't just force Starfleet off the station overnight, at least peacefully. That would be a total logistics nightmare. Without some sort of extenuating circumstance, I really can't see how Bajor could easily force Starfleet to leave for many days or weeks.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

It might be that easy to get Romulans away pretty quickly, but I doubt it would be that simple to get rid of Starfleet, at least on peaceful terms. I'm sure that both Starfleet and Bajor would have some sort of agreement in place that allows for Bajor to take over full control. I'm sure, unless there was a breach of contract, that Bajor couldn't just force Starfleet off the station overnight, at least peacefully. That would be a total logistics nightmare. Without some sort of extenuating circumstance, I really can't see how Bajor could easily force Starfleet to leave for many days or weeks.

The Circle Trilogy would seem to argue that the ball was in Bajor's court as far as who controlled the station, and nothing is stated after those events that suggest the legal status quo has changed.

 

[UnknownSample]

... weapons they would have moved anyway at the end of the war, especially if Bajor did enter the Federation.

You're very trusting of the Romulans! Why? The whole point was how unlikely they were to give up that base. This is how powers encroach. They get a foot in the door, and see if the encroachee has the nerve to stand up to them.
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The US has done it. I don't think Cuba wants us at Guantanamo, but there we are anyway. I think it's the same with Thule base in Greenland.
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I thought DS9 made Kira's position understandable.