Donny's TOS Enterprise Interiors

[aridas sofia]

The sweep (or lack thereof) of the pylon can be thought of as a feature of a more advanced design, like the sweep of a jet’s wing versus the much straighter wing on a prop plane.

OR the sweep can simply be thought of as a way to position the nacelle for optimal performance, and make as much sense on a 2160 or 2260 starship as a 2270 starship.

Aesthetics have as much to do with making sense as they do with precedence.

 

[aridas sofia]

I mean, after all, the interconnecting dorsal is an angled pylon.

 

[Donny]

I mean, after all, the interconnecting dorsal is an angled pylon.

That was my thought as well. If the dorsal can be angled and have a tapered cross-section, why couldn’t a Miranda roll bar?

Btw, @aridas sofia, I noticed you and @Prologic9 have very similar structures on your respective Reliant renditions (his in 3D, yours on your 2D schematics) for the Space Energy Field Sensors. Who depicted them first? Was he following your lead, or vice versa?

 

[aridas sofia]

That was my thought as well. If the dorsal can be angled and have a tapered cross-section, why couldn’t a Miranda roll bar?

Btw, @aridas sofia, I noticed you and @Prologic9 have very similar structures on your respective Reliant renditions (his in 3D, yours on your 2D schematics) for the Space Energy Field Sensors. Who depicted them first? Was he following your lead, or vice versa?

I didn’t know about his model until I saw it mentioned, I think, by you in this thread awhile back. I had already drawn mine - the upper pod is actually a secondary hull on a smaller patrol vessel I drew. So I’m sure it’s coincidence. I also admire his model, but like you, prefer the impulse engine centered on this design.

EDIT- To be fair to Prologic9, when I finally saw his model, I so liked his art deco-inspired idea for the space energy field attraction sensors that I went back and altered my sensors to look more like them.

 

[Donny]

I didn’t know about his model until I saw it mentioned, I think, by you in this thread awhile back. I had already drawn mine - the upper pod is actually a secondary hull on a smaller patrol vessel I drew. So I’m sure it’s coincidence. I also admire his model, but like you, prefer the impulse engine centered on this design.

EDIT- To be fair to Prologic9, when I finally saw his model, I so liked his art deco-inspired idea for the space energy field attraction sensors that I went back and altered mine to look more like them.

I've reached out to him privately to see if he minds I borrow a few things from his design. I know we're all dabbling with derivative works anyway, but figured it would be best to ask!

 

[Norsehound]

I mean, after all, the interconnecting dorsal is an angled pylon.

That is a crewed area, not a power transmission conduit. There may be a reason the nacelle pylons were straight for 2260s engine design. Otherwise, why weren't those sweeping as well in the original design?

At least the Phase-II design uses the sweeping pylons. I consider them semi canonical.

 

[aridas sofia]

Otherwise, why weren't those sweeping as well in the original design?

Like I wrote above, “the sweep can simply be thought of as a way to position the nacelle for optimal performance, and make as much sense on a 2160 or 2260 starship as a 2270 starship.“

 

[Donny]

Experimenting with rough shapes.. This is what I've come up with tonight. Not sure how I feel about it yet. Gonna let it sit overnight and see how I feel about it tomorrow. Definitley still need to refine the shape of the "pod" sides and aft end, but I'm keeping the deflector dish and the Constitution-style mounting behind it. The roll bar and pylon combo is definitely shaped like the Miranda's at this point, but swept forward a bit more, and with a rounded rectangle cross-section. I've added the nacelle pylon "vents" on the roll bar like I talked about earlier, but I feel like they make the roll-bar look a little too much like "wings" and something you'd see on a Romulan vessel. Hmm.

 

[Norsehound]

I gotta say, this take satisfies my own TOS sensibilities more than the rest. Maybe it's little things like the way you did the Impulse arrangement and the 60s' grill on the corners of the secondary hull. Kudos!

The rollbar feels odd as a curved but at that junction when the refit straightens that out. I don't know how to solve this problem myself- but I'd probably start by staring at Jeffries' spaceship sketches and trying to pull something off of that. There are a ton of concepts hashing out the Klingon Battlecruiser that might be adapted satisfactorily. It's as close to the original source as you can get I think... and that whole pylon-Rollbar assembly is kind of predatory enough that the Klingon concepts would step in okay.

I'm torn on the pod. I like the shape, but I feel like hard-averting similar shapes to the Miranda in favor of going more primitive of a shape. But then you run into the problem of being klunky...

Also as much as I like the blister connecting pod to nacelle, the Enterprise doesn't have this feature. Remove it? But I'm also sensing this is a direction contrary to what you want to do- and ultimately it is your project.

 

[Rekkert]

I'm loving the pod so far! I also quite like the "vents" (even if it doesn't make much sense to have them there I guess), it's a uniquely TOS detail that fits in very nicely. The shape of the rollbar reminds me a bit of my own (very old) take on the TOS Miranda, even though I went with a classic torpedo pod (and based the whole thing on the Kelvin original concept art).

As for the pylons area, I agree with @Norsehound regarding the "blister"; and while I certainly wouldn't say "the pylon has to be at 90° like the Enterprise's or it's not accurate to TOS!", right now that area looks a bit too much like its TMP era version IMO, rather than having an identity of its own.

 

[aridas sofia]

Here are my 2¢ worth, and I suppose, my reasoning for coming to a different shape than Prologic9 did:

1) The pod on Reliant is devoted to photon torpedoes. Why would a pod devoted to a main sensor and navigational deflector have anything like the same shape?

2) the one instance we have of Matt Jefferies bending a pylon is on his D7 Klingon, and it is a hard edge. Not that that holds for this, but it is indicative of his “look” and style.

3) Finally, the bulge atop the nacelle is so much a part of the refit nacelles that it looks out of place to me. Like you are reaching to make this work.

Like I said- my 2¢ worth. In 1966 you could use it to buy a gum ball. Not worth a damn today.

 

[Tallguy]

Nice. I was thinking of the roll bar being entirely an arc with no straight parts. But sinceI'm definitely an extra cook I'll see myself out and wait in the dining room. (My brother used to work with a music producer who would tell an over eager session musician "That's fantastic. It's so good you should really save it for your own record." )

Nice job with the shapes coupling the nacelle to the pylon.

 

[Donny]

I'm loving the pod so far! I also quite like the "vents" (even if it doesn't make much sense to have them there I guess), it's a uniquely TOS detail that fits in very nicely. The shape of the rollbar reminds me a bit of my own (very old) take on the TOS Miranda, even though I went with a classic torpedo pod (and based the whole thing on the Kelvin original concept art).

Thanks! I think the pod just needs refinining, and perhaps I need to do several quick iterations and pick something I like. I'm terrible at iterating, so I need to force myself to do some quick mock-ups before settling and refining a shape and going too far. Glad you like the vents. I too questioned the validity of having vents there, but on the TMP Miranda has similar "Vents" on it's rollbar, analagous to those on the Refit Enterprise pylons.

Also, funny how you mentioned a few days ago you're not a fan of the TOS aesthetic, and during some unrelated research the other day, I found a ton of your older work which was in the TOS aesthetic. Haha. What gives?

As for the pylons area, I agree with @Norsehound regarding the "blister"; and while I certainly wouldn't say "the pylon has to be at 90° like the Enterprise's or it's not accurate to TOS!", right now that area looks a bit too much like its TMP era version IMO, rather than having an identity of its own.

I agree on that point. I think I'm leaning too hard into the TMP-era version as well and need to depart from it a bit. Thanks for the feedback!

Here are my 2¢ worth, and I suppose, my reasoning for coming to a different shape than Prologic9 did:

1) The pod on Reliant is devoted to photon torpedoes. Why would a pod devoted to a main sensor and navigational deflector have anything like the same shape?

2) the one instance we have of Matt Jefferies bending a pylon is on his D7 Klingon, and it is a hard edge. Not that that holds for this, but it is indicative of his “look” and style.

3) Finally, the bulge atop the nacelle is so much a part of the refit nacelles that it looks out of place to me. Like you are reaching to make this work.

Like I said- my 2¢ worth. In 1966 you could use it to buy a gum ball. Not worth a damn today.

Those are all very good points! And yes, my fear last night was that I was reaching a bit hard to make it work, so I'm glad you and Rekkert both validated that feeling I was having so I can work towards a more unique design for this TOS variant.

Nice. I was thinking of the roll bar being entirely an arc with no straight parts. But sinceI'm definitely an extra cook I'll see myself out and wait in the dining room.

I wouldn't call you an extra cook at all! I appreciate and value your feedback, sir!

Really guys, thanks for all the great feedback. I know I won't be able to satisfy everyone's tastes in the end but I'm glad to have you all push me to really hone the design!

 

[Donny]

Ah, for some reason my replies to @Norsehound were deleted from my previous post, so here they are:

Maybe it's little things like the way you did the Impulse arrangement and the 60s' grill on the corners of the secondary hull. Kudos!

To be fair, that "60's grille" on the secondary hull's corners was also present on the TMP-era MIranda.

The rollbar feels odd as a curved but at that junction when the refit straightens that out. I don't know how to solve this problem myself- but I'd probably start by staring at Jeffries' spaceship sketches and trying to pull something off of that. There are a ton of concepts hashing out the Klingon Battlecruiser that might be adapted satisfactorily. It's as close to the original source as you can get I think... and that whole pylon-Rollbar assembly is kind of predatory enough that the Klingon concepts would step in okay.

Good idea about going through all the old Jeffries' sketches for inspiration! I will be doing that today!

I'm torn on the pod. I like the shape, but I feel like hard-averting similar shapes to the Miranda in favor of going more primitive of a shape. But then you run into the problem of being klunky...

I think I just need to refine the pod a bit more. I definitely want to keep the cylindrical portion but perhaps need to experiment with the other flanking shapes a bit more.

Also as much as I like the blister connecting pod to nacelle, the Enterprise doesn't have this feature. Remove it? But I'm also sensing this is a direction contrary to what you want to do- and ultimately it is your project.

I admit the blister connecting the nacelles to the pylons was a design feature I really liked about Prologic9's TOS Miranda, so I wanted to try it here. But I agree, it's a little more reaching into the TMP aesthetic than it should. I'll try a different pylon configuration tonight and leave the blister out and see how that looks.

I will say that, looking over my WIP from last night, the pylon shape, while very reminiscent of it's TMP-Miranda shape, still has those 60's TOS angles to it I like. Almost reminds me of the TOS Starfleet Chevron.

 

[Spaceship Jo]

I admit the blister connecting the nacelles to the pylons was a design feature I really liked about Prologic9's TOS Miranda, so I wanted to try it here. But I agree, it's a little more reaching into the TMP aesthetic than it should. I'll try a different pylon configuration tonight and leave the blister out and see how that looks.

I think the blister works great. I was going to say something about how the shape is a bit too "shaped" (tapered? complex? I have no idea of the lingo with this sort of thing), too much like the TMP era ships, but then I saw how well that blister "matches" the BC deck structure which has a similarly "complex" taper.

You're already departing from a "just kitbash TOS Enterprise pieces" with the Miranda rear saucer business, so it's not like everything NEEDS to be TOS. In fact, the blister reminds me a bit like MJ's P2 detailing, which is much more TOS than TMP (from a certain point of view), so I think it fits great. It might be my favorite detail as it just fits so well.

 

[GNDN18]

Almost reminds me of the TOS Starfleet Chevron.

This shot would be more comfortable here:

Spoiler: A Mark VII Derailment

 

[Rekkert]

Also, funny how you mentioned a few days ago you're not a fan of the TOS aesthetic, and during some unrelated research the other day, I found a ton of your older work which was in the TOS aesthetic. Haha. What gives?

It's not like I hate the aesthetic or anything, I actually like it when I see it as retro-futurism. I just can't fit it into the rest of the Trek universe and accept it as a take on "our future". The way the crew acts and speaks (which of course is incredibly dated by now) doesn't help either. When I was a kid TOS always stood out to me that way.

I know, I'm not a big fan of TOS yet I worked on several Starfleet Museum ships and on the TOS-Kelvin kitbashes.
It came out of my rationale at the time that "TOS was easier to do", when I was like 16 and just starting with SketchUp. My first ship (TMP era) proved to me how hard it was to do detailed surfaces and materials, so I went straight to TOS after that. Then when I moved to 3DS Max it was the same thing, back to TOS for learning; and then after just a couple of years I moved to Blender and focused mostly on interiors, otherwise I might have stuck to TOS for learning another software yet again.

 

[Donny]

It's not like I hate the aesthetic or anything, I actually like it when I see it as retro-futurism. I just can't fit it into the rest of the Trek universe and accept it as a take on "our future". The way the crew acts and speaks (which of course is incredibly dated by now) doesn't help either. When I was a kid TOS always stood out to me that way.

I know, I'm not a big fan of TOS yet I worked on several Starfleet Museum ships and on the TOS-Kelvin kitbashes.
It came out of my rationale at the time that "TOS was easier to do", when I was like 16 and just starting with SketchUp. My first ship (TMP era) proved to me how hard it was to do detailed surfaces and materials, so I went straight to TOS after that. Then when I moved to 3DS Max it was the same thing, back to TOS for learning; and then after just a couple of years I moved to Blender and focused mostly on interiors, otherwise I might have stuck to TOS for learning another software yet again.

I totally understand. I actually started modeling TOS stuff a couple decades ago now because it seemed the easiest to learn how to model in, and although I know I’m capable of more today, I keep coming back to it because it’s more relaxing for me to work in rather than the other eras. Given that it took me a month and a half to model the Refit, compared to 11 days for the TOS Enteprise, that speaks to how I can complete tasks much faster in the TOS era, thus the projects feel less demanding of my free time.

Plus, even though I think TNG is the superior Star Trek show, the TOS and TOS movie eras are my favorite settings.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Experimenting with rough shapes.. This is what I've come up with tonight. Not sure how I feel about it yet.

Well for what it's worth, here's how I feel about it:
OOOOH! AAAAAH!!

 

[David cgc]

The over-hanging deflector in place of the torpedo tubes doesn't bother me in principle (it's easy enough to fanwank something about better shielding in the TMP era making overt deflectors optional, or that it was replaced by the two little nubbins on the "ledge" at the back end of the saucer top, plus the external torpedos don't make much sense in the TOS-era when they're built into the saucer and not a discrete module), but the housing being the same shape as the torpedo launcher on the refit-version, but backwards, really makes me itchy. Flaring out forward just feels, like, anti-sleek, plus it reminds me of all those Reliant kits I've seen where they put the rollbar on backwards (including, sigh, one on the shows).