CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens

[dmac]

What the hell are you babbling about? That poster was yet another in a long line of such people who come in here and rattle off a bunch of opinions we've discussed 100 times before and when people don't embrace it, leave. The poster had already said they were leaving, and I just pointed out how childish such behavior was. I stand by that.

What if this poster is lonely, depressed and is reaching out for someone to talk to?
We might be the poster's last best hope to maintain contact with the human race.
Is it really so horrible to extend a simple exchange of conversation?

In Five...... Four....... three .... two....... one......
LOL.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

What the hell are you babbling about? That poster was yet another in a long line of such people who come in here and rattle off a bunch of opinions we've discussed 100 times before

First of all, how can you expect someone who had only been here since last Tuesday to know what opinions you'd heard before? He outright said he wasn't in the know:

I didn’t know it was years ago I thought he came out recently. Even though I like Star Trek I don’t keep up with the news.

Oh, and which of the following opinions did you find objectionable?

I do agree that the axanar guy is pretty shady. Nor am I confident he will actually ever finish it.

I’m not saying they should get money from it in fact many fan films can barely fund them self let alone make any money.

Amateur actors got no problem with that. ( Hollywood actors to be overrated anyways) keeping it clean? definitely got no problem with that. I am all for copyright laws and I and I’m all against people stealing your trademarks.

At what point did I say they should make money off of it?
I am Obviously not disagreeing with you in on that point. I’m sorry I did not make that point clear in my first post.

I do not think that people should be able to make money off of other people.

I guess after hearing that I can understand why they did it. And after hearing that I probably would’ve done the same Thing cbs did.

I will definitely remember that for next time. Thank you

just saying I would rather read A license book than a fan film.

I can see why CBS did it. I mean they do own Star Trek they should be only ones making money off of it.

I agree with every other guideline and think they are reasonable

I do believe in copyright laws and in the intellectual property and you should not make money off of other peoples work.

You see, he mostly agreed with all of you. In fact, he basically agreed with all the Guidelines save one. He's closer to you on the Guidelines than I am. But that wasn't enough for you guys.

and when people don't embrace it, leave.

He left because he thought the discourse was futile:

I find that statement to be wrong. You probably don’t care And you know what we could argue all night long and we won’t change each other mind at all. All we really are doing is just yelling the same thing back at each other. I find a pointless don’t you.

 

[SITZKRIEG!]

Because I believe the topic of long-form versus short-form film is actually a topic that deserves its own thread (and because I think a prolonged conversation about it is off-topic), I'm going to compose a separate response for this on a new thread. I'll post a link once I've started the thread. My replies to some of your comments will be part of that thread.



This response irritates me on two levels. First, I think the tone and sentiment are childish and cruel, and from what I've seen of other messages you've posted, they are beneath you.

However, the thing that actually gets my metaphorical goat is that your comments ignore the reality of what just happened on this thread. It should not be difficult for you to understand how it might be emotionally draining to debate over a dozen people, with similar politics and ideologies and practiced responses, tag-teaming you over the span of multiple days. There is an ideological slant to the people posting on these forums, kept pure by the practice of "wolf packing" those with differing opinions, and when people in the ideological out-group are properly antagonized, they either leave or their understandably frustrated reactions are used against them by the moderators to boot them from the forums.

This is not a victory of your rhetoric, Maurice. It's a failure to offer an environment conducive to civil and constructive discourse.

As someone who has commented on the tone of the thread multiple times over the two (?) years I've been a member here, it's most certainly not an inclusive thread that tolerates a diversity of opinions. I myself have been dogpiled on iirc because of slight deviations from the orthodoxy. It's not enough to admit there were serious mistakes and ongoing lack of both good judgement as well as good morales with some of those involved; it must all burn! That's a sarcastic exaggeration but it's probably the impression some folks not neck deep in the know get. I mainly keep coming back to the thread for Carlos' occasional updates on the continuing mess and news I wouldn't otherwise get without joining spread out groups that are too fundamentalist (whether pro or anti) for my liking.

 

[Maurice]

I think people newish here and to Axanar in general do not realize AP's storied history on the board, where he was permabanned and twice caught with with duals long before the Axanar shenanigans. His outlandish conduct and incompetence following Prelude and his total mismanagement/squandering of well over a 1.5 million dollars in donations is pretty indefensible. If there's any bias here he earned every bit of it.

Honestly, what other side is there, except to ignore years of his behavior and pretend he's actually capable of delivering a film at all, let alone one of any quality (especially given he's burned bridges with practically everyone who made Prelude)?

I suppose we could be nicer to n00bs who come in all starry-eyed, but the ones who come here all pro Axanar tend to enter guns blazing to school us with lists of so-called "facts" with neither foot in the reality of the situation and just the narrative AP has spun.

 

[KennyB]

I expect people to at LEAST scan a thread before jumping in head first...............

 

[Sgt_G]

I expect people to at LEAST scan a thread before jumping in head first...............

 

[urbandefault]

When the news about the lawsuit broke over the holidays in 2016, I read every word of the original thread "before jumping in head first." It took a few days to get through it all, but I did it.

Then again, I'm speshul.

 

[USS Intrepid]

One thing this thread has taught me is arguing with people who think their opinion and feelings trump facts is an utterly pointless endeavour. I don’t know about anyone else but I have vastly better things to do with my time.

 

[RedForman]

I might be in the minority, but I think rather than wasting time debating the merits of the guidelines, one would do well to stop and remember that it was LFIM's egregious actions that brought them forth in the first place (whereas, if he would've made the damn movie instead of try to create a recurring revenue stream based on someone else's IP...........this wouldn't be an issue)

 

[Matthew Raymond]

I think people newish here and to Axanar in general do not realize AP's storied history on the board, where he was permabanned and twice caught with with duals long before the Axanar shenanigans. His outlandish conduct and incompetence following Prelude and his total mismanagement/squandering of well over a 1.5 million dollars in donations is pretty indefensible. If there's any bias here he earned every bit of it.

Except that Gabriel in no way supported Alec Peters or suggested that he was a good guy. He literally stated the opposite. The opinion he expressed was that overall the Guidelines were great. He simply felt that the first one was a little restrictive. That has nothing directly to do with Axanar. Having an opinion about the Guidelines and supporting Axanar are not equivalent.

I expect people to at LEAST scan a thread before jumping in head first...............

You expect people to scan 1900+ pages? Right. It would take hours to navigate without reading at all, based purely on all the page loads.

When the news about the lawsuit broke over the holidays in 2016, I read every word of the original thread "before jumping in head first." It took a few days to get through it all, but I did it.

Yeah, there's been about 500 more pages since then. At what number of pages does the task become too onerous?

I might be in the minority, but I think rather than wasting time debating the merits of the guidelines, one would do well to stop and remember that it was LFIM's egregious actions that brought them forth in the first place (whereas, if he would've made the damn movie instead of try to create a recurring revenue stream based on someone else's IP...........this wouldn't be an issue)

To what ends are we remembering his egregious actions? Are we actually having a dialogue about how to prevent them in the future? Or are we just using his memory to cut off unwanted debate? I say that rhetorically; it's the latter. I'd actually love to have a constructive conversation about how to build a more accountable, less grifty fandom.

 

[RedForman]

To what ends are we remembering his egregious actions? Are we actually having a dialogue about how to prevent them in the future? Or are we just using his memory to cut off unwanted debate? I say that rhetorically; it's the latter. I'd actually love to have a constructive conversation about how to build a more accountable, less grifty fandom.

It's two-fold - both to prevent them in the future and keep the debate/conversation focused & on track (as too many times in this very thread, said debate/conversation has gone completely off the rails and/or got mired down on points that cannot be changed).

The guidelines are what they are, brought on solely by LFIM's actions. How can the community move forward now and prevent future grifters from creating more problems and/or making things worse?

 

[mthompson1701]

I don't see the point in debating the guidelines in this thread. The guidelines are here, and they're not going away. As I recall it was AP who was asking CBS/Paramount for guidelines and went to the other fan film producers so they could "get what they want" which needed up not happening. The result being the guidelines we now have for fan films.

Recent donor emails have been about the Trekcetera auction he's running, and a video update on the October shoot. It's nothing new it's the same things over and over and over. I don't go into the Axanar Facebook groups much, but I did see them asking for names for Ares-class ships. I almost submitted some names of my own, and I'm glad I didn't. Before I pushed the enter key I thought about it, and realized donors paid to do that, and that wasn't something my donation would've allowed me to do. So I deleted it, and closed the browser.

 

[feek61]

You expect people to scan 1900+ pages? Right. It would take hours to navigate without reading at all, based purely on all the page loads.

I expect someone new to the thread to take a little effort and time reading through it and understanding the discussion instead of just bursting in with no facts and spouting off a bunch of nonsense. I do think it's pretty rude and uncool for a person to start posting, acting like we don't know what we are talking about and this person is going to get us straight. I also think it's pretty immature to spout-off a bunch of stuff and then get huffy when people don't agree with you and then leave but first proclaim their position and superiority and before they leave. I think I did that in 3rd grade.

So, to answer your question, yes, I do expect people to be familiar with the discussion before they join the conversation (with no facts). It's really just common courtesy.

 

[Tom]

Sad thing is, this shit with with Alec has gone on for so long that now we have 'The Next Generation' of Trekbbs posters getting involved . Now were did I put my Trekbbs walker? Must be getting senile again.

 

[jespah]

Here's a quick (hopefully) q - would anyone be interested in creating a topic (which I would pin) which would give the highlights of this thread and its predecessor (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/cbs-paramount-sues-to-stop-axanar.278077/ )?

It doesn't have to be too long. More like, here's a link to the news of the lawsuit, here's a link to where the lawsuit docs are, etc. Of course a lot of that is on Axamonitor but there may be folks who would prefer bypassing that site.

1) Lawsuit announced here
2) AP gets representation here
3) Complaint here (or most recent complaint)
4) Answer here
5) Depositions here
6) Analysis here
7) Motions here
8) Big news story here
9) Judge's motion memorandum here
10) Settlement info here
11) Current fundraising here
12) Other ....

Something like that. Short, sweet, and to the point. If people have other questions, then they can ask them or be referred back. I think it would do a solid for the folks who come into the middle of the movie, as it were.

 

[KennyB]

So, to answer your question, yes, I do expect people to be familiar with the discussion before they join the conversation (with no facts). It's really just common courtesy.

If not the whole thing, how about the last 10 or 20 pages @Matthew Raymond or is that asking too much of a poster?

 

[dmac]

Here's a quick (hopefully) q - would anyone be interested in creating a topic (which I would pin) which would give the highlights of this thread and its predecessor (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/cbs-paramount-sues-to-stop-axanar.278077/ )?

It doesn't have to be too long. More like, here's a link to the news of the lawsuit, here's a link to where the lawsuit docs are, etc. Of course a lot of that is on Axamonitor but there may be folks who would prefer bypassing that site.

1) Lawsuit announced here
2) AP gets representation here
3) Complaint here (or most recent complaint)
4) Answer here
5) Depositions here
6) Analysis here
7) Motions here
8) Big news story here
9) Judge's motion memorandum here
10) Settlement info here
11) Current fundraising here
12) Other ....

Something like that. Short, sweet, and to the point. If people have other questions, then they can ask them or be referred back. I think it would do a solid for the folks who come into the middle of the movie, as it were.

If we can have strawberry rhubarb pie, I'm all for it.
Honestly the Peters inflicted guidelines, that's become history. They are what they are, some folks are out there making the best of them and I applaud their efforts.
As for me, I've stayed involved in 6-7 projects since guideline day but each time with a little less vigor.
If I was on a desert planet, found a lost lamp, started rubbing it clean and the John Van Citters Genie granted me one wish. It would be 22 minutes over 15.
That's personal to me because it's the only thing that effects my enjoyment of writing, to the point of I'd rather not.
Everything else in the guidelines I find "overly" generous.
Peace, Happiness and contentment to all.
Are you going to eat that last piece of pie?

 

[Neumann]

Stop the electric boogalo and sue as mucha as needed. :-)

 

[Matthew Raymond]

It's two-fold - both to prevent them in the future and keep the debate/conversation focused & on track (as too many times in this very thread, said debate/conversation has gone completely off the rails and/or got mired down on points that cannot be changed).

There's basically never debate here except when someone like me or Gabriel shows up. Most of the time, you just dump on AP, which I actually don't have a problem with. I won't begrudge people giving someone what they have coming to them.

However, don't act like you're doing some noble service for the community. I've actually tried to get conversations going about how to properly create fan films in other threads, only to be either ignored or dog-piled there, so you'll excuse me if I question your claims of constructive conversation/debate. This forum is so devoid of people talking about how to actually make fan films that I've literally been referred to theforce.net for advice on the topic.

Here's an example of a conversation I'd see as constructive: As I recall, AP once said that he'd make Axanar a 501(c)(3), but to my knowledge he hasn't done that. Was this a good idea to start with? Was there another kind of 501(c) status he should have pursued instead? Trek Continues released some of their paperwork for the filing process. Would that have been a good starting point for filing? How can the Trek Continues organization be improved, especially in light of revelations about Vic? Given the outcome of the Axanar lawsuit, would they even have a chance of obtaining 501(c)(3) status? Are there moral or practical reasons that fan productions shouldn't obtain such status?

See, the above is worthy of it's own thread, and it explores only a single aspect of Axanar.

Here's a quick (hopefully) q - would anyone be interested in creating a topic (which I would pin) which would give the highlights of this thread and its predecessor (https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/cbs-paramount-sues-to-stop-axanar.278077/ )?

Certainly can't hurt. It would be nice to have a simple, digestible resource to reference.

If not the whole thing, how about the last 10 or 20 pages @Matthew Raymond or is that asking too much of a poster?

Was there something he needed to see in pages 166-186 that had specific bearing on the topics he discussed? I don't think you actually know. I think if you did know, you'd have produced a citation by now. I think all this talk about not having read past posts is a deflection tactic. A digital snipe hunt.

I suspect that if Gabriel had read every word of both threads and every document linked therein, he'd still have expressed the same opinions about the Guidelines, and I doubt your responses would have been any different. (That is, of course, assuming that he wouldn't have been scared off by how this thread's in-group have treated outsiders in the past.)

 

[KennyB]

I'm sorry but unless I am getting paid or a grade I am not going to produce APA citations on a BBS. I just maintain if you are going to participate in a discussion, you should try to know what you are talking about. Obviously you have no problem with ignorance.........