ways to beat the kobayashi maru without cheating

[Kor]

The first or second "Starfleet Command" computer game had a playable Kobayashi Maru scenario. I'm fuzzy on the details now. But it seems that if you somehow managed to destroy all the three Klingon ships (and getting significant damage to your own ship in the process), more of them would just appear seemingly out of nowhere. So there was no way to get away. I wouldn't doubt that it would work similarly in the TWOK simulator.

There was a TOS novel "The Kobayashi Maru" that dealt with (I think) Chekov, Scotty, and Sulu's approaches to the test. I remember enjoying that book.

Kor

 

[Mytran]

There was a TOS novel "The Kobayashi Maru" that dealt with (I think) Chekov, Scotty, and Sulu's approaches to the test. I remember enjoying that book.

Kor

This one? Audiobook read by James Doohan

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[Tallguy]

Good book. One of my favorite parts was where Chekov "won" by destroying his ship and taking the Klingons with him. He said he'd escape by life boat. The reply was that after blowing up a heavy cruiser and three other like sized ships that the Federation wouldn't be able to send RADIO through that sector for the next hundred years, let alone anyone surviving in a life boat.

Oh, and when Kirk reprograms the sim and says "This is Lieutenant James T. Kirk" the Klingons reply "THE James T. Kirk?" and one of the "dead" crewmen started to giggle.

 

[UssGlenn]

I was OK with the version of Kirk's test seen in ST09. I think the key to his test, regardless of the details, is that it must be incredibly obvious that he has screwed with the test. No hiding what he has done. That's the difference between a commendation for original thinking and expulsion for cheating.

 

[FormerLurker]

Surrender your starship and join the Klingon Empire.

The Klingons are dishonored rebels trying to reclaim their position, and refuse to accept your surrender so they can destroy you in combat.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I think the key to his test, regardless of the details, is that it must be incredibly obvious that he has screwed with the test. No hiding what he has done. That's the difference between a commendation for original thinking and expulsion for cheating.

Is Kirk then willing to sacrifice his potential career for the sake of letting everyone know what he thinks about the test? Perhaps. If he had been kicked out, no doubt there'd be any number of less scrupulous employers interested in a genius former Starfleet cadet who doesn't follow the rules and has the benefit of Starfleet knowledge and training.

It's also possible that paramilitary/spy-type organizations would come calling on him, recognizing Kirk's open and well-known antipathy for the establishment as a great front for him to embark on undercover/unofficial activities.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

For some reason, the time travel just won't work. No one can figure it out, it should work...but something is wrong. Damn it!

You create the sensor ghosts and move in to the Kobayashi Maru. All is well, the Klingons are off shooting at nothing. As you begin transport two more Klingons decloak and blow you to smithereens.

And then it turns out there was no Maru, and you just fired into Klingon space, an act of war!

Exactly.

This really points up the fact that the simulation is programmed to cheat. No matter what you do, it'll conjure up more ships, or stronger ships. Anything to ensure you don't win.

Why would you fire on the Maru?

"This is the eighth run-through and you haven't even hit a single Jem'Hadar. And you shot Moogie!"
"I could see that we weren't going to rescue her - so I put her out of her misery."
- Nog and Leck, during a training exercise to rescue Ishka.

"Self-Destruct is offline."

Nelson from the Simpsons "Ha Ha!"

Ahh, a smartass after my own twisted heart.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

"Self-Destruct is offline."

Nelson from the Simpsons "Ha Ha!"

" Out of order?! F***! Even in the future, nothing works! "
Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

 

[publiusr]

This really points up the fact that the simulation is programmed to cheat. No matter what you do, it'll conjure up more ships, or stronger ships. Anything to ensure you don't win.

Maybe Kirk turned that on its head. Found a way to use that for countermeasures.

The result would be a series of what-ifs that could be poured over like the writings of Clausewitz.

This would be worthy of praise, not expulsion. At any rate--I think what Kirk did wasn't just a cheap cheat--but maybe something akin to Wiles solving Fermat

If--in the game--the universe were a simulation--and his was the approach of a character to write his own timeline...it would be like us finding a cheat code to our own simulation, perhaps:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/...-a-computer-simulation-lets-not-find-out.html

I seem to get the Maru treatment from Fate at times.

 

[Lance]

I seem to get the Maru treatment from Fate at times.

 

[WildManWizard]

The first or second "Starfleet Command" computer game had a playable Kobayashi Maru scenario. I'm fuzzy on the details now. But it seems that if you somehow managed to destroy all the three Klingon ships (and getting significant damage to your own ship in the process), more of them would just appear seemingly out of nowhere. So there was no way to get away. I wouldn't doubt that it would work similarly in the TWOK simulator.

There was a TOS novel "The Kobayashi Maru" that dealt with (I think) Chekov, Scotty, and Sulu's approaches to the test. I remember enjoying that book.

Kor

I believe the star fleet academy game had the same thing happen

 

[Guy Gardener]

transwarp beaming makes the "width" of the Neutral Zone ineffective.

A lot of technology makes the Neutral Zone ineffective.

Periodically the Federation and the Star Empire will have to ask how effective their long range weapons are, and how fast their ships are, so that the Neutral Zone can serve it's purpose, a heads up on imminent extermination, and expand the Zone by a few dozen sectors each way.

 

[Qonundrum]

Start the test but become thankful that real Klingons attack in the nick of time, so the simulation has to stop but they need someone who hasn't fully completed their Jedi training to fight Darth Captain V'ader. Oh wait, the plan worked mighty well 'til then...

 

[Tallguy]

This thread has really made me reconsider the fact that there are cadets (certainly the one we saw and the other one we heard about) who think an acceptable solution to a test at the academy is to violate interstellar treaty between the Federation and a rival / hostile government while commanding one of the largest and most heavily armed vessels that the Starfleet has.

"There's no correct resolution, it's a test of character." But breaking the law might not be the go to move?

"I reprogrammed the simulation so that it was possible to rescue the ship." Did you also change treaty stipulations so it didn't become an intergalactic incident?

 

[Timo]

Why would this be a concern, though? The Cadet may fly in while in violation of the NZ, but once there, she or he will discover it was the Klingons who violated it first, or else they wouldn't be there, right next to the victimized ship inside the NZ. Whoever survives the conflict can then plausibly say the other side started it, and the UFP if victorious can then choose not to go to war if that better suits them.

In any case, Starfleet at the time of ST2:TWoK already knows that violating the (Romulan) Neutral Zone works to their advantage every time, no matter who violates it first. Encouraging Cadets to try it out just prepares them for the realities of the battlefield, apparently...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

"I reprogrammed the simulation so that it was possible to rescue the ship." Did you also change treaty stipulations so it didn't become an intergalactic incident?

Or maybe he reprogrammed it so the ship wasn't in the Neutral Zone.

 

[Takeru]

Why would Kirk even get into trouble for reprogramming? If the cadet doesn't know they face a no win scenario it's the equivalent of being lured into a trap, any cadet seeing through the deception and finding a way out of it should get exceptional grades because that's what you want from a commanding officer.

 

[Discofan]

In NUTrek that's easy, you can beam the Kobayashimaru people from light-years away just as Khan did in the movie. Problem solved. You never even entered the Neutral Zone.

 

[Henoch]

In NUTrek that's easy, you can beam the Kobayashimaru people from light-years away just as Khan did in the movie. Problem solved. You never even entered the Neutral Zone.

I think the super-beaming is only "TO" a designation, not from a designation.

 

[Discofan]

I think the super-beaming is only "TO" a designation, not from a designation.

Then send a shuttle with a portable beaming thingy to the ship and voila!!!

At worst you risk material not people and the Klingons won't know what is going on before they'll end up vulture-circling an empty ship. You can even set the ship on self-destruct as a parting gift to the Klingons.