Nah, Mary Chieffo just has very a prominent chin and cheekbones.
Klingons on Picard and other future shows
- Thread starter JD
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You mean the world didn't end with DSC Klingons?
The difference between the TOS movie Klingons and TNG TV Klingons is interesting.
Aside from TMP, The TOS movie Klingon tend to be leave most of the face with out prosthetics and "cleaner" forehead ridges. TNG is a return to nose pieces and introduced elaborate ridges. Some of which were really OTT.There are so many Klingon designs that the DISCO version fall in the middle of the pack on the best to worse scale. It's just another variation the the theme that TMP established.
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The biggest issue with the Discovery makeup was not that it was ugly, or that it "violated canon." It's that it was effectively a full-mask, even in the more stripped-down Season 2 design. This really limits what an actor can do in terms of facial expressions, as too much of anything, from smiling to screaming, causes the makeup to pull away. There have been great actors who have used "mask" style makeup in the past in Trek (Rene Auberjonois, Doug Jones, Armin Shimmerman) but you have to change your entire repertoire of physical expression to deal with a mostly immobile face, using your eyes and more the positioning of your limbs and body, rather than rely on your face. Also the dental prosthetics apparently really get in the way of speaking, considering we know that Chieffo (and perhaps other actors as well) had to overdub most of their lines.
I think it's possible that they purposefully made her makeup more angular in the first season because for a great deal of the season she was supposed to have been starving to death.
While I have no evidence for this, I do wonder if they brought back the nose piece in TNG largely because Micheal Dorn was black. He was the first black person (as opposed to person in blackface) cast as a Klingon, and they appeared to deracinate him in other ways, like giving him straight hair. His earliest makeup lacked ridges on the nose, but it still had a smooth piece which built up the entire bridge, making it look more "Roman" and less obviously black-looking. Once they decided to do it with Worf, they began doing it with all of the later Klingons as well in Bermen Trek.
I think it's possible that they purposefully made her makeup more angular in the first season because for a great deal of the season she was supposed to have been starving to death.
While I have no evidence for this, I do wonder if they brought back the nose piece in TNG largely because Micheal Dorn was black. He was the first black person (as opposed to person in blackface) cast as a Klingon, and they appeared to deracinate him in other ways, like giving him straight hair. His earliest makeup lacked ridges on the nose, but it still had a smooth piece which built up the entire bridge, making it look more "Roman" and less obviously black-looking. Once they decided to do it with Worf, they began doing it with all of the later Klingons as well in Bermen Trek.
That's my thought too, if you compare early Season 1 L'Rell with later Season 1 L'Rell her face gets more fuller.
The sides her head in episode 4 are pretty bony, even when compared to Episode 1
There are ridges, just not as pronounced as they would become. The forehead ridges are less pronounced as well.
Love the look.That's my thought too, if you compare early Season 1 L'Rell with later Season 1 L'Rell her face gets more fuller.
The sides her head in episode 4 are pretty bony, even when compared to Episode 1
It's already gone 40 years and is back in theaters. Discovery won't be remembered that long.
Yeah, they do that with anniversary years.
We'll see what happens in 2057 for DISCO. ( Okay, I probably won't, unless I've been uploaded into an android body
)
I'll be 78 and happy to gloat to whoever's still posting here.
And if they're not here, that's what ouija boards are for.
And if they're not here, that's what ouija boards are for.
I love how "it won't be remembered " argument jumps up. Who cares? Enjoy it now and share it.
All the people I know who enjoy Star Trek share it with others. Why worry about the future?
All the people I know who enjoy Star Trek share it with others. Why worry about the future?
40 years from now, the median age of someone who's alive will be someone who was born in 2020. I can't see that crowd liking TMP. It's an acquired taste. Even for Baby Boomers and Generation X. You have to have the patience to be able to sit through it. Kids today, unfortunately, find TWOK slow. Forget about TMP. I think with babies born now, it's going to get even worse. I don't know, I don't have kids, but that's my sense. But I do know it's not for everyone, nor would I suggest it for everyone.
And that's just talking about the average people of that time. The film snobs, then or now, if they're Trekkies, will likely still say TWOK is the best. Hell, I think TWOK is the best Star Trek movie. I think TMP has better visuals, better effects, and a better musical score, but the pacing is too slow, the plot is too thin for its length, and the dramatic beats don't match its sequel.
I think (notice I said "I think", unlike others, I won't speak in definitive absolutes), I think it'll be remembered as "TWOK and the rest". When it comes to the TV series it'll be "TOS, TNG, the new one(s) on right now, and the rest". The first two will always be remembered, the currently running one(s) will garner attention (unwanted or not), and "the rest" becomes the stuff in the middle. DSC, as much as I like it, won't be forgotten, but I do think it'll unfortunately become part of the list that's called "the rest". But you know what? I just saw a DS9 Documentary in the theater a few months ago. If DS9 can still be remembered, so can DSC.
And that's just talking about the average people of that time. The film snobs, then or now, if they're Trekkies, will likely still say TWOK is the best. Hell, I think TWOK is the best Star Trek movie. I think TMP has better visuals, better effects, and a better musical score, but the pacing is too slow, the plot is too thin for its length, and the dramatic beats don't match its sequel.
I think (notice I said "I think", unlike others, I won't speak in definitive absolutes), I think it'll be remembered as "TWOK and the rest". When it comes to the TV series it'll be "TOS, TNG, the new one(s) on right now, and the rest". The first two will always be remembered, the currently running one(s) will garner attention (unwanted or not), and "the rest" becomes the stuff in the middle. DSC, as much as I like it, won't be forgotten, but I do think it'll unfortunately become part of the list that's called "the rest". But you know what? I just saw a DS9 Documentary in the theater a few months ago. If DS9 can still be remembered, so can DSC.
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TMP is the only Star Trek production I’ve never been able to sit through. I’ve tried, but it’s so boring.
Nah
I was trying to post one of the L'Rell pics in the quote above, but my computer was being stupid and Kol'Sha was the only other Season 2 Klingon I could think of to look up on MA.
Meh, the only reason any body cares about TMP as much as they do is because it's the first Trek movie. If it was the fourth or fifth one people wouldn't care as much as they do. I actually enjoy the director's edition, but it's still pretty far down on the list for me.
I think for most non-Trekkie's it's already TWOK and the rest, it's pretty much the only one I've ever seen referenced in non-nerdy movies and shows.
In your opinion.
Off Topic, but I love this...
April 5, 2063 (First Contact Day) will be my wife's 99th birthday. I hope we are both around to celebrate it with our new Vulcan friends.
Speaking of make-up, McKenzie Westmore, daughter of the legendary Michael Westmore(who played a child in "when the Bough Breaks" on TNG, and "Ensign Jenkins" on an episode of Voyager, and another small role in "Insurrection"), will be playing a role on Picard®
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0922877/?ref_=nmbio_trv_2
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0922877/?ref_=nmbio_trv_2
I'd kind of expected Picard to probably go with the The Search for Spock - Enterprise Klingons since it's a continuation of TNG, but then earlier today I got wondering about Discovery Season 3. Will they use the Season 2 design, or switch over to the old design? Will they make both shows use the same design, or could we end up with two different Trek shows with two different versions of the Klingons? The 900 year jump would a good opportunity for Disco to switch over to the old design, and all they'd have to do is drop a line about the augment virus mutating them, or one group wiping out another group or something like that.
What about the animated series?
I hope it's OK I started this as a new thread rather than posting in my Picard Klingons thread since this is looking at all of the future series, rather than just Picard.
What about the animated series?
I hope it's OK I started this as a new thread rather than posting in my Picard Klingons thread since this is looking at all of the future series, rather than just Picard.
I think they'll most likely look like '80s/'90s/'00s Klingons but with a Disco Twist.
I always figured the Disco Klingons were an attempt on the Klingons' part to fix the Augment Virus but accidentally went too far. In-story, they were an over-correction. You'll notice that TNG Klingons look exactly half-way between TOS Klingons and Disco Klingons.
I always figured the Disco Klingons were an attempt on the Klingons' part to fix the Augment Virus but accidentally went too far. In-story, they were an over-correction. You'll notice that TNG Klingons look exactly half-way between TOS Klingons and Disco Klingons.
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